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Subject: Role of self propelled artillery systems
asv2003    8/24/2003 4:38:16 AM
1. Has the role of SP arty been undermined by the extensive use of missiles and the air force as was done in Iraq? 2. Can the arty systems based on high mobility vehicles really substitute the SP arty in tommorows battle field?
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:Role of self propelled artillery systems   9/3/2003 7:02:32 AM
Since GW, US forces have been equipped with a system called Advanced Field Artillery Data System (AFATDS), a system which gretly streamlines the entire fire planning and execution process. When tied to digital call for fire from Blue Force Tracker and the equipment in the Bradley Fire Support Team (BFIST) vehicle, well, the results are truly astounding. Also, the M109A6 is NOT in the same league as the M109A3/A5 of GW. It also has enjoyed advances in digitization, improvements to suspension (it can fire 360 degrees without digging in the spade) and improved ammunition distribution. I see the M109 series being to the Army what the B-52 is to the USAF...you can improve on it but you have to go to a revolutionary new idea to surpass it. And before I get beat up about the SP 155mms of the Brits, French & other Euros, remember the M109 started fielding in the early 1960s. I think the oldest of the "newer" 155mm family is the French GTR which entered service in mid-1980s(?). So as the Brits would say, not a bad piece of kit.
 
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WinsettZ    RE:Role of self propelled artillery systems   9/7/2003 2:57:54 PM
The new innovations in artillery pieces will be putting them in C-130s. Good examples are Rascal, Caesar and the HIMARS systems.
 
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Interrested    RE:Role of self propelled artillery systems   9/7/2003 4:06:43 PM
Why are lightweight artillery systems only for light devisions? Do the have a lower fire rate or so??...what is the down side to them. By the way the brits have made a very lightweight system. Could be easily incoperated in many light transit systems (trucks, light tracked, 8x8's etc.) It has a digital fire control, lightweight cheap 30 km range...seems to me it's not a bad idea. M777 155MM - SPECIFICATION Crew Normally 7 or reduced detachment of 5 Dimensions Overall length, towing mode 9275 mm Overall length, firing mode 10,210 mm Overall width, towing mode 2,770 mm Overall width, firing mode 3,720 mm Overall height, towing mode 2,260 mm Trunnion height, firing 650 mm Wheel track width 2,300 mm Production weight 3,745 kg Split lift weight, elevation mass 2,414 kg Split lift weight, carriage 1,331 kg Load on towing eye 60 kg Maximum tow ground clearance 660 mm Gun Calibre 155 mm Barrel length 39 calibre Barrel life 2,650 firings EFC Muzzle velocity at Charge 8 super 827 m/s Maximum firing range 24.7 km, unassisted Maximum firing range 30 km, assisted Rifling RH uniform 1/20 cal Elevation arc -40 mils to +1283 mils Traverse arc + and - 400 mils Rate of fire, intense 5 rounds per minute Rate of fire, sustained 2 rounds per minute Maximum charge: Charge 8 super Fire Control Direct or indirect firing with electro-optical sighting system for day/night operations Digital Fire Control System optional Performance Maximum towed road speed 88 km/hour Maximum towed cross country speed 50 km/hour Air braked towing vehicle 4x4, 2.5 ton
 
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gunner    RE:Role of self propelled artillery systems   9/7/2003 4:23:29 PM
Must be good idea. The US has bought it!
 
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Interrested    RE:Role of self propelled artillery systems   9/8/2003 1:24:38 AM
"found" a nice picture of what I meant, the brits think of everything. Yhe lightweight gun that I was talking about on a wheeled vehicle, weighing less that 20000kg... http://www.bdec-online.com/bd-cat27/d271347.htm
 
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Role of SP artillery systems ... Interrested   9/8/2003 6:02:21 AM
We have to be careful about definitions. For most of us, when we hear "self-propelled" artillery, we think of armored vehicles. Because they are armored vehicles, they can still maneuvar under fire. The "light weight" propelled systems, have different meanings today. Generally, it is becoming the definition of truck based artillery, like the CEASAR system. This is not "towed" artillery. Its more like "unarmored" self-propelled. That gives you the answer for why the "lightweight" systems are almost always considered only for the "light" divisions. Light divisions cannot continue the advance under fire, without taking losses. Heavy divisions can. Unless you are an extremly poor nation, it doesn't make sense to give artillery to a heavy division that cannot survive artillery fragments or machine gune fire. Lightweight artillery systems also means just what it says. That by using special alloys, recoil reduction, etc, there has been a weight reduction in the equipment. So there are "lightweight" towed and SP artillery systems out there. Those efforts are usually done to reduce the number of air sorties required to move the unit.
 
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AlbanyRifles    Spot On Shaka   9/8/2003 7:23:17 AM
SP does mean armored FA...at least in US Army/USMC parlance. And not all FA systems have to be deployable on C-130, only for light/abn/air assault & Stryker. Future Combat System FA may eventually be of a different caliber than 155MM, but the effectiveness of the 155MM round in OIF may slow down a march to different round.
 
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Thomas    RE:Role of SP artillery systems ... Shaka   9/19/2003 6:41:07 AM
I understand lightweight systems are lighter equipment- hence the name, but does that go for the ammo as well? If it doesn't the reduction in airlift sorties can't be that great??
 
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Role of SP artillery systems ... Thomas   9/19/2003 8:43:29 PM
Not that I am aware of. 155mm shell is a 155mm shell. I don't think there is a "light" or "heavy" version. I suspect that some of them may be lighter than others, depending on what they are used for. Off the top of my head... I think a 155mm is around 200 or so pounds, while a 105mm is about 90 or so pounds. In my day, if you wanted to be "buff", be a gun bunny (those are the guys who moved the ammo).
 
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Sam    RE:Role of SP artillery systems ...Shaka   9/19/2003 9:04:23 PM
155mm 95-115Lbs depending on filler and type of round.
 
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