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Subject: Could thermobaric munitions substitute for DPICM?
Jeff_F_F    3/19/2007 3:53:43 PM
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Jeff_F_F       3/19/2007 3:57:33 PM
Mr Dunnigan posted a piece about a proposed treaty banning cluster bombs on <a href=/militaryforums/478-3331.aspx>Dirty Little Secrets</a> I assume the US would reject that like we did the landmine treaty. If we did sign it in a moment of national insanty, could thermobaric weapons replace that capability?
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Jeff_F_F       3/19/2007 3:57:59 PM
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JFKY       3/19/2007 4:16:03 PM
Short is  "no."
Thermobaric/FAE's work well in controlled environments, when the temperature, pressure and wind are just right, or inside a building which excludes so much of the outside environment.
DPICM works whether it's raining, snowing, sleeting, dry, sunny, warm or cold.  In short, one can call down DPICM and expect the same results irrespective of the weather.  I don't believe the same can be said of FAE's.
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00_Chem_AJB       3/19/2007 6:44:27 PM
FAE require the fuel to mix equally with the air, then are limited in use due to enviromental condtions, and are quite useless in a confined space like inside a building or cave (not enough air to get the mix right) a thermobaric is ideal for use in confined spaces, like you posted in House call demolition, they will easily level a building should they explode inside. I think you can use thermobarics in the open air, but from what I know (please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this) they excel in confined areas. I still think though a thermobaric or FAE has a better punch then a DPICM, but the DRICM would be more cost effective and more available, my fravorite is the old idea is the old put as much HE on the target as possible, not used much, but it's fun to watch.
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neutralizer       3/20/2007 4:42:31 AM
It appears that UK has announced they are taking 'dumb' cluster munitions out of service, by this they means those without self-destruct.
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Jeff_F_F       3/20/2007 6:07:51 PM
Thanks for the info on thermobarics. Self destruct on cluster munitions makes a lot of sense with or without the treaty, though it would surely add some to the volume of the munitions, and hence reduce the number in each round somewhat. I'm suprised it hasn't been done strictly from a cost of cleaning up the mess standpoint.
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Jeff_F_F    HE on target   3/20/2007 6:22:18 PM
The idea of what it must be like to be in an assembly area--or just about anyplace, for that matter--subjected to a TOT. One moment normal, the next moment the world just turns to something Dante might have dreamed up.
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HIPAR       3/21/2007 11:12:16 PM
Is anyone aware of any artillery deliverable thermobaric munition that is either in existence or in development?  What effective kill radius could a 155 mm projectile (about 105 pounds) achieved against soft targets?

---  CHAS
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00_Chem_AJB       3/22/2007 6:58:52 AM
Well there is the Russian TOS-1, that uses thermobarics, and there other smaller systems, for example a thermobaric warhead for the RPG. Not sure of any actucal thermobaric shells. 
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