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Subject: Guided sniper bullets. How far is it?
ilpars    6/14/2004 10:08:24 AM
Guided sniper bullets which can slightly change its course during flight to target.
If this technology founded even an inexperienced soldier can kill an enemy several kilometers away.
How far are we from this tech?
What kind of guidance does this weapon need?
 
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doggtag    RE:Guided sniper bullets. How far is it?   6/19/2004 9:03:33 PM
...Not necessarily an increase in the accuracy, as opposed to an increase in range WITH the accuracy. I did read about the Canadians' 1&1/2 mile shot, and in the future it may be more favorable for such long range shots to be the preferred choice. I also saw that TV war tech show about the "conceptual" British anti-tank rifle armed team using guided bullets: the effect there was to put a high velocity, guided explosive microshell into a very vulnerable specific point (the weaker hull/turret junction) at long range. A future concept such as this could prove very useful: antipersonnel taking 2-3 mile kills, and antimateriel rifles eliminating vehicles the same way: an engine block being cracked at that range can turn an asset like a tank into an immoble liability, or the tank's optical sighting systems and any unfortunate heads poking out hatches could be plinked off. A man portable, extreme range heavy rifle with very lethal ammo could create an entirely new aspect in tactics (just as spec forces have done with the .50 rifles).
 
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Ehran    RE:Guided sniper bullets. How far is it?   6/19/2004 11:07:13 PM
the existing .50 cal rifles are pretty much at the edge of what you can reasonably expect a sniper team to shlep around. and reasonably how often are you going to acquire targets at over 1500 meters anyway.
 
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Ehran    RE:Guided sniper bullets. How far is it?   6/19/2004 11:09:56 PM
There are the new Cheytac .40 calibre bullets which are supposed to be much more efficient at carrying energy to range. also supposed to be less vulnerable to wind drift etc. this would let you deliver accurate heavy rounds from a rifle maybe 2/3rds the weight of a 50.
 
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chinese boy    RE:Guided sniper bullets. How far is it?   6/20/2004 4:29:09 PM
so true, a good sniper doesn't need guided bullet, on other hand, who's gotta build a bullet packed with micro-electronics?
 
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doggtag    RE:Guided sniper bullets. How far is it?   6/20/2004 5:54:38 PM
..."who's gotta build a bullet packed with micro-electronics"... Like I mentioned earlier: there was little argument that sniping needed anything more than 7.62-sized bullets for several decades, but when some American decided to develop a long range rifle firing 12.7mm ammo, everyone jumped on the boat of longer-range sniping. Should someone develop a guided microshell/bullet, don't be surprised if the weapon doesn't eventually replace or at least supplement the big 50s. In World War 2, it was serious work to develop an effective proximity fuze and pack it into a 76mm shell. Now programmable fuzes are being incorporated into 20mm ammunution (as in the OICW). It wouldn't take a giant leap from our current technology to develop a miniature guided rocket from anti-personnel use. If someone develops it, guaranteed someone else will find a very effective role for it. And if a sniper team from 5 km away can eliminate an unfriendly dictator or warlord, chances are the people in the target zone will never even hear a weapon fired from that distance away..
 
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American Kafir    RE:Guided sniper bullets. How far is it? Ilpars   6/20/2004 10:15:23 PM
Interesting idea, but is the research and development for a guided sniper bullet worth all the micro-engineering that would be involved? I would take your idea in a different direction. Instead of being able to remotely guide the bullet to its target, what if we could remotely guide the sniper rifle to its firing position? I'm talking about mounting a self-reloading gun with a small rifled barrel on a very small unmanned air vehicle (UAV). The Israelis are already developing a UAV small enough (bird-sized, literally) with a camera that can be carried into battle by a footsoldier to be used in urban reconnaisance. Now imagine if that little gadget had a gun on it, even something that could fire handgun rounds.
 
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Ehran    RE:Guided sniper bullets. How far is it? Ilpars   6/21/2004 12:53:24 AM
a gun is kinda unreliable. take the same mass of handgrenade would be much more reliable. fly it up to bob's face and bang no more bob the evil dictator. well at least he is down a double hehe.
 
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blacksmith    RE:Guided sniper bullets. How far is it? Ilpars   6/21/2004 1:05:16 AM
Wouldn't need self-reloading. UAV would fire a single shot from 100 yards. Build the UAV to resemble a bird (crooked wings, feathered edges, flapping is optional). By the time anyone realized that one of the birds flying around was diving on Mr. Dictator, it would be way too late to do anything about it. I like it. The tech is probably on the same order as the guided 20/25mm and you would get more flexibility.
 
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doggtag    hunter killer critters   6/21/2004 1:27:33 AM
If we're going to incorporate the mini armed UAV concept, then look at the US military's R&D of the BEAM program (Biology, Electronics, Aesthetics, and Mechanics), where "robo bugs" are created that look like and mimic flying insects. Why not bio-engineer a toxin into a "stinger" incorporated into such a device and use it as a pinpoint system? BEAM is intended as producing micro miniature reconn devices, but certainly there exists a more sinister role. Who would ever suspect the random moth or butterfly could actually be a remote assassin?.
 
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ilpars    RE:Guided sniper bullets. MattZone   6/21/2004 3:17:30 AM
"A Canadian sniper in Afghanistan recently made several shots that were over 2100m meters, including a world-record 2430 meter shot. What would be the point of further increasing the accuracy of the bullet? " Simply, very few men can do such a shot. If a guided bullet can be invented, every specialist soldier will be able to make that shot.
 
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ilpars    RE:Guided sniper bullets. - AK   6/21/2004 3:22:30 AM
In the near future, bad guys will also have gadgets to find the electronic signals. So, simply an UAV to close enemy will not be so easy. On the other hand a guided bullet that fired 3 km away from the taret will be very hard to identify and impossible to intercept.
 
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blacksmith    RE:hunter killer critters   6/21/2004 11:49:39 PM
There are definitely poisons toxic enough to make the stinger lethal. In response to the follow-on post about being able to detect electrical emissions and thereby being able to detect the robo-bug, bugs generate electrical fields too, and EM can be minimized with the use of optronics and chemical propulsion to emulate muscles. But you would have the same problem detecting the bug as you would the mach 3.5 projectile. Can you detect it soon enough to do anything about it?
 
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doggtag    RE:hunter killer critters   6/22/2004 1:25:51 AM
I'll give the benefit of the doubt that the robo bug's EM could be tracked,.. but only a seriously paranoid dictator in the know (knowing that such devices may be used against him) would have the sufficient tracking and interception systems in place to discover the assassination attempt. Just how do you discern the HK bug from the local fauna? A programmed micro killer could effectively blend in with the local mosquito population or swarm of locusts, roaches, or another bug of choice. As labs ARE currently working on robo insect prototypes for "exploration" purposes, certainly the Pentagon, MoD, and others are considering the more sinister applications. There will come a time when madmen who know they are on a Most Wanted List will be too paranoid of such devices that he will neither sleep, move around, nor even trust his own people. Actually, it amazes me some of them do now. As fanciful as it may sound, the people tinkering with such technologies will definitely be "recruited" by the military market to develop warfare applications for these devices. It may be a couple decades away, but it will happen. Just as will a guided bullet..
 
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ilpars    RE:hunter killer critters - doggtag   6/22/2004 1:53:37 AM
Why do you think only good guys will have this litle vermins?
 
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eon    RE:hunter killer critters - eon to ilpars   6/22/2004 9:32:51 AM
I agree with you. The most likely source for such a system isn't military R&D, it's the private sector, where the initial research has been going on for the last decade or so in the U.S., Japan, and Taiwan. (It's a favorite project in Silicon Valley, due to the high "gee-whiz" or "Hey, ain't it cool?" factor.) Once the technology is mature, it's a sure bet that it will be too widespread in the high-technology community for any government to successfully classify and restrict it. Which means, of course, it will be "on the market", available to the highest bidder. One more example of how you can't legislate technological advancement or its application, any more than you can legislate morality..
 
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