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Subject: is the USA developing a Anti Matter Bomb?
metalfan182    8/24/2007 3:51:36 PM
I have recently heard that the USA has dedicated an entire particle accelerator to the manufacture and study of Anti Matter. Could this be for weapons purpose? I have heard that Anti Matter doesn't give off harmful amounts of radiation on detonation and just generates pure energy. Could this mean a clean nuclear weapon?
 
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flamingknives       8/25/2007 4:21:59 PM
If someone else developed anti-matter weapons, it wouldn't make atomic weapons obsolete or even obsolescent. The existing arsenal is ample to obliterate all life on earth so the ability to do so with slightly fewer weapons (or the same amount) isn't much of a capability jump.

Considering that you can irradiate materials and cause them to become radioactive, hitting a target with an atomic bomb's worth of energy is still going to do really unpleasant things for a considerable amount of time. I don't know the specifics, but I would suspect that the contribution to fallout of the initial fissile material is very small.

Plus heat and light are both forms of electromagnetic radiation, the spectrum of which stretches from radio frequencies to gamma rays, with the energy levels for a specific photon going up with the frequency. A matter-antimatter reaction would release lots of everything.
 
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Treadgar       8/26/2007 3:39:22 PM
Like someone said, there would be unstable particles produced, the kinds fatal to life. I'm not sure it would be  as long lasting as a conventional nuclear bomb. I don't think it's a waste of time to research antimatter. What I think antimatter might be useful for is for space propulsion, and possibly a potential source of energy, but only if you have an economy or production system where it's relatively cheap to produce antimatter. 

There is one thing that just occurred to me. One advantage that might accrue to antimatter is you don't need as much of it to get the effect that an atomic weapon would need. Maybe you have an artillery shell that has an antimatter trap in the core, say maybe less gram. The shell impacts, the trap collapses...that might be interesting. Still it's an expensive bullet.

Treadgar
 
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TrustButVerify       8/27/2007 10:44:13 AM
I agree- antimatter would be a spectacular weapon, but right now it's completely impractical (to the point of silliness) in terms of both production and deployment. The costs are staggering- I would say that the Manhattan Project, plus the NASA budget for the first twenty years of the Space Race, would pale in comparison. The amounts of energy required make it infeasible until we at least come up with a new power source such as controlled fusion or some consequence of a Grand Unification Theory which I can't even imagine. Then there's the containment problem- which may or may not be solvable. How do you make a M/AMA bomb "one point safe?" As far as I can tell it's guaranteed to be fail-deadly and over here in the West, at least, that's a non-starter.
At that point all bets are off. Pocket tokamaks, ye gods...

 
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Jeff_F_F       8/27/2007 2:59:07 PM
I beg to disagree that there is any reason to want to build an antimater bomb.
 
A) producing antimater is massively expensive
 
B) storing antimatter is horribly difficult.
 
C) even if you have produced it, making it actually go boom is rediculously hard and any explosion you produce is horribly inefficient. In sci fi all you need is a brick of antimatter and a brick of matter and you put them together and boom. But in real life only the very edges of such structures would react and the resulting explosion would scatter the rest. In an atmosphere eventually all of the antimatter would hit something and react but it would take awhile and the reusult might be more of a burn than a blast.
 
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buzzard       8/27/2007 3:14:43 PM

because if we don't build it then some one else might. Its called MAD, Mutually Assured Distruction. If we can figure out how to use the stuff then who know what the possibilities for it as a weapon are.

 

I see it as a opertunity to build the next generation of WMD. Last great  invention was the H-Bomb and that was only about 5 years after WWII. I think that its time to make something new.

There is pretty much no practical reason whatsoever for bothering with an anti-matter bomb. Sure, the efficiency of it would be a few times higher than for a thermonuclear device, but who the hell cares? You can make a 100 MT H bomb easily enough (been done, tech has been available for 40 years). That will obliterate anything on this planet (mountains included). All that developent of an antimatter bomb would be is a money sink.

The reason the goverment is spending money on producing antimatter is for reasearch into fundamental particle interactions. Antimatter allows you get to to higher energy threasholds in particle collisions.

buzzard

 
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WarNerd       8/28/2007 12:48:13 AM
I have to disagree with you on this one:
C) even if you have produced it, making it actually go boom is rediculously hard and any explosion you produce is horribly inefficient. In sci fi all you need is a brick of antimatter and a brick of matter and you put them together and boom. But in real life only the very edges of such structures would react and the resulting explosion would scatter the rest. In an atmosphere eventually all of the antimatter would hit something and react but it would take awhile and the reusult might be more of a burn than a blast.

 

Making antimatter go boom is easy, getting it not to do so until you want it to is extremely hard.

 

Regular matter atoms have a cloud of negatively charged electrons on the outside which repel each other and act as a sort of bumper to prevent the atoms from getting to close. Antimatter has positively charged anti-electrons (positrons) instead of electrons on the outside. These electrons and positrons are loosely bound so that they can get a fair distance from the atom, and because they are opposite charges will be attracted to each other instead of repelled, quickly resulting in a small boom.

 

Once one of the electron / positron pairs is removed, the charges on the nucleus’s (positive fro normal matter, negative for antimatter) are unmasked and the 2 nuclei rush together for a bigger boom.

 

As for the initial reaction/explosion slowing down because the antimatter is scattered, I am afraid that the effect will be the exact opposite. The matter/antimatter reaction is a bit like a fuel air bomb, the more finely the material is dispersed the faster it can react.

 
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Herald1234    Some myths to dispel.   8/28/2007 5:37:15 AM
1. The US has to this point acumulated less than 10^-18 grams of antiprotons.
2. we've held that resevoir in a stable mirror charge trap for more than eighteen years. Magnetic fields contrary to popular belief don't decay all that easily-especially self maintaining ones.
3. If we set off all the ordnance we have Humanity's nuclear arsenals we would temporarily damage about 3% of the surface area of the Earth and kill less than 1/100th of 1% of its biomass. When you consider that a Katrina event is the equivalent of 15%-20% of the US arsenal in effective energy unleashed over a wide area, you have to wonder about the nuclear weapon effect exaggerations that plague our popular imaginations. For example- the Czar bomb would leave a ground crater about 10 kilometers wide and about two kilometers deep. It would vaporize Everest surely, but it would hardly destroy the Earth or do more than local immediate damage to the environment. The sustained damage in the form offall out would be bad for a couple of years, but then so was the fall out from Krakatoa [radioactives included by the way] which was far worse in yield as well as the debris kicked into the air.  
 
You have to understand what is really needed to Chicxilub us. That would be Mount Everest traveling at a good  20 kilometers per second headed straight for a plate tectonic fault. THAT would fix us good. At 115 MILLION megatons energy released or about 1000 tomes [3 orders of magnitude] of the entire Human nuclear arsenal, it will kill off anywhere from 55% to 90% of all species currently alive-probably anything larger than a chicken, just from the shock waves..   
.
THAT is what you need to wipe out Humanity. We don't even come close to that kind of power to do work on ourselves.........yet.
 
Herald
 
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Treadgar    Re: some myths to dispel   8/30/2007 9:58:25 AM
Herald1234 I guess I can't easily take your word for some of the claims you made. I'm not saying I disagree, but your statements regarding the popular imagination and nuclear war seem incredible to me. Where did you get this information, it seems contrary to everything I've read about nuclear war? Ever the cynic of things well known I'd like to read up on that.

I'm not sure where the popular notion that electromagnetic fields decay comes from. It's not the field I'm worried about, but the reliability of the equipment that contains the antimatter. From what I've heard these traps aren't very effective. From what I've heard those little positrons seem to just wander off, zip right through the field and anilihate in tiny acts of atomic desctruction.

Treadgar
 
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Herald1234       9/1/2007 4:56:42 AM

Herald1234 I guess I can't easily take your word for some of the claims you made. I'm not saying I disagree, but your statements regarding the popular imagination and nuclear war seem incredible to me. Where did you get this information, it seems contrary to everything I've read about nuclear war? Ever the cynic of things well known I'd like to read up on that.

I'm not sure where the popular notion that electromagnetic fields decay comes from. It's not the field I'm worried about, but the reliability of the equipment that contains the antimatter. From what I've heard these traps aren't very effective. From what I've heard those little positrons seem to just wander off, zip right through the field and anilihate in tiny acts of atomic desctruction.

Treadgar
The area footprint effect is a circle of a 2.0x10e15 [half a megaton of TNT] joule event is approximately 55 square kilometers. Detonating 30,000 such devices yields a surface damage of 1,650,000 or 10e6 square kilometers in area.
 
The Earth is 148,300,000 or 1.43e8 square kilometers in area. Do the math. I was being generous at 3% of the land surface area of the Earth being damaged.
 
The antimatter containment is based on permanent ferromagnetic field bottles, not electromagnet generated ones. 
 
What I told you about nuclear weapon effects is straight out of common PHYSICS and history.; We have detonated close to six hundred nuclear weapons of all sizes and shapes all over the planet. We have data.Review it on the web of your interested  GOOGLE: Nuclear weapons tests-especially US nuclear weapon tests..
 
Herald 
 

 


 
 
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Treadgar       9/1/2007 8:51:31 AM
Herald1234 we've tested some 600 atomic weapons, but consider we go back to the MAD policy where they were talking about a nuke exchange in excess of 600 weapons in a very short period of time. Most of these would either be air bursts or surface bursts, not like the subsurface tests which I would argue (in a friendly manner) are the greater bulk of the test cases. How many of those tests were above ground? Maybe the blast results would be insignificant (as long as you're well enough away from said blasts), but then you have all this radiation. What about the so-called "nuclear winter?" If we were talking neutron bombs I might be a little less cynical, but from what I've read Russian nukes were especially dirty in regards to residual radiation. Again, you might be right, but if you are, it seems MAD might have been less successful than it has been. It's been a long time since I've taken physics, and I'm pretty hip to history, but I remember both physics teachers and history teachers talking about how terrible nuclear war would be. And just how terrible did they say it would be? We're talking the end of life on Earth as we know it. Maybe it was just hysteria of the times, but you cut that and half and it's still an ugly scenario.

Treadgar
 
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