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Subject: Why does ASRAAM suck?
Shaken    5/5/2004 6:42:25 PM
Looking past the unfortunate acronym selection, what reasons do people have for denegrating the ASRAAM? On paper, it looks like a fine weapon. (There was a noteworthy moment in the AIM-9X vs R-73 discussion when Boris and USN_Mid agreed on ASRAAM as a non-competitor without hesitation).
 
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boris the romanian    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   5/6/2004 12:15:41 AM
I never said the ASRAAM was a non-competitor, I just considered it to be roughly the equal of the AIM-9X, which we were already covering pretty thoroughly when we were debating 'winder vs. Archer.
 
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USN-MID    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   5/6/2004 12:32:58 AM
Yeah if you read on I said it was pointless to add the ASRAAM b/c its design philosophy is so similar to AIM-9X. Unless you wanted to just debate ASRAAM vs Archer from the start.
 
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Peter Sutcliffe    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   5/7/2004 9:15:29 AM
Or to be more accurate you could say that AIM-9X is similar to ASRAAM, since ASRAAM was first to market. And is by all accounts performing extremely well.
 
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Aussiegunner    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   5/10/2004 4:58:30 PM
My understanding of ASRAAM is that the design philosophy is different to the other missiles. It is designed as a high speed "hittile" using speed and direct impact for a kill rather than focussing on maneuverability, like the other missiles on the market.
 
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B.Smitty    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   5/27/2004 4:00:11 PM
IIRC, ASRAAM still has high off-boresight capability and BAe offered an uprade with thrust vectoring and a larger warhead. Also, ASRAAM should have a longer range than AIM-9x by virtue of its larger motor & cleaner aerodynamics.
 
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doggtag    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   5/27/2004 9:26:10 PM
So then, is the "suck" part just because enough ASRAAMS aren't in service in sufficient numbers yet? ...
 
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Scorpene    ASRAAM doesn't suck-- actually, it's cool, heh heh heh....    6/2/2004 2:35:58 AM
Yep, Aussiegunner is right. It's a high speed missile that is fused to penetrate the target before explosion. It hits with kinetic impact many, many times worse than a high speed automobile collision. On that note, I nominate ASRAAM to be renamed "The Drunken Socialite" for it's smacking ability or "The Ex-Wife" in honor of the delayed explosion and absolutely dogged guidance system.
 
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Heorot    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   6/28/2004 8:35:49 AM
Actually, ASRAAM v AIM9X should never have happened. The US and Europe agreed tha the US would develop AMRAAM and Eurpope would develop ASRAAM. Both parties signed a MOU that they would buy each others missile, but as usual, the Americans reneged on the deal and went for their own missile rather than buy European.
 
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Shaken    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   6/28/2004 6:52:21 PM
>> (Heorot) >> Both parties signed a MOU that they would buy each others missile, but as usual, the Americans reneged on the deal and went for their own missile rather than buy European. (Shaken) This is not entirely true. ASRAAM development was grossly behind schedule and the missile being developed was grossly inferior to the R-73. EVERYONE involved (except the UK) bailed on the program, which led to AIM-9X in the US and IRIS-T in Germany. To their credit, the ASRAAM team redesigned the weapon and finally brought the system into service only a little over a decade late. (Pretty good by consortium development standards). Even after this redevelopment, the ASRAAM did not meet most nations post-R-73 standards for a new IRM. And given the rocky history of consortium weapon development, you need to realize that countries staying involved throughout a program is the exception and not the rule. -- Shaken - out --
 
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Heorot    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   6/28/2004 7:54:55 PM
But on a purely objective view, the AIM9x is not better that ASRAAAM. For a start, they both use the same seeker head so no difference there. The motor on ASRAAM is much better than the one in the AIM9x, acceleration and manoeverability are better than the AIM9x. No, the real reason why ASRAAM was not adopted by the US is simple economics. Why buy foreign when you can renege on the deal and support American Pork Barrel politics.
 
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Heorot    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   6/28/2004 7:57:27 PM
As a follow up to my last post, I am old enough to remember the original deal. Not for a minute did I believe that it would happen. I don't even believe that the politicians that signed the deal beleiaved it either. It was just Europolitics. And as you said, the other European countries all fell out of bed as soon as they could.
 
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displacedjim    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   6/28/2004 8:42:38 PM
"And as you said, the other European countries all fell out of bed as soon as they could" Typical European Pork Barrel politics. Displacedjim
 
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Heorot    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   6/29/2004 8:13:11 AM
As I understand the term, Pork Barrel politics is about placing work/money with your own people. By dropping out of ASRAAM, those countries lost the opportunity to do that. Instead the US or Britain will get the money depending on which missile is chosen to equip their forces. Therefore the miguided Europeans were NOT indulging in Pork Barrel politics. They were just being cheapskates. The truth is that only Britain and France in Europe are capable of pulling off this kind of project; the others would have been picking up the scraps while paying through the nose for the priviledge.
 
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Shaken    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   6/29/2004 9:06:47 PM
>> (Heorot) >> They were just being cheapskates. The truth is that only Britain and France in Europe are capable of pulling off this kind of project; the others would have been picking up the scraps while paying through the nose for the priviledge (Shaken) The German team working on IRIS-T might object to this statement. Of course, they aren't in service yet either... -- Shaken - out --
 
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Heorot    RE:Why does ASRAAM suck?   6/30/2004 7:52:14 AM
They may be making IRIS-T but I am not convinced that it will outperform AIM9X or ASRAAM. My mind goes back to the Alpha jet trainer built in competition to the Hawk. On paper a good aircraft; in reality it sucked.
 
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