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Subject: Hi BSL, Tommy Atkins, and other old friends.
David Blue    5/4/2002 1:36:57 AM
I'm just dropping back in briefly. It's me, but I no longer use my email address to identify myself, as I picked up too much spam after doing so.

Are these boards still infested with loons, terrorist cheering squads and people who think that mowing down noncombatant Muslims will be a good way to fight a war against evil? I'm really not going to talk to people who are all for killing women, children etc..

As for the Jenin operation: I think the detail was unacceptable, and refusing to allow proper investigations is doubly so. But as to the scale and general purpose of the attack, it's what I would have done in Sharon's shoes back when the Palestinian terrorists knocked off the first Israeli cabinet minister so my only objection is: too slow on the trigger, Mr. Sharon.
 
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Phoenix Rising    RE:Hi BSL, Tommy Atkins, and other old friends.   5/4/2002 11:41:18 AM
David, Have you seen the tape of the Palestinian fake funeral? The American media made a big deal out of it for a day or so, then let it drop. I was wondering if it had been shown in Australia. I think the Israelis have yet to refuse a "proper" investigation. The requested that neutral military and counterterrorism personnel be sent to investigate a war zone that they allege (and the Palestinians seek to disprove) was a terrorist stronghold. Instead, they were treated to people such as the former head of the International Red Cross and other people with no military background and whose eyes cannot look past the prima facie ugliness of battle, regardless of the cause. I was all for an investigation, and I think it would have cleared Israel's name (at least in the few parts of the world whose mind was not already made up) if it had happened sooner. However, at this point, both sides have had so much time to play with the site and coordinate their stories that any kind of fact-finding mission would be nothing but a farce. I have no idea why the U.N. refuses to acknowledge that Israel's restraint of their heavy but blunt warfighting assets (F-15's, artillery, etc.) was not a measure of respect for human rights. Until they do, I will see the U.N. as incurably one-sided. I, too, find the idea of exterminating innocent civilians repulsive. However, those people who think differently are definitely still here, on both sides (those who advocate exterminating Jews and those who advocate exterminating Muslims; probably some who advocate exterminating Americans, too, but they haven't come out and said so yet). --Phoenix Rising
 
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tommy atkins    RE:Hi BSL, Tommy Atkins, and other old friends.To Dave   5/4/2002 5:07:16 PM
Dave. So good to hear from you.Obviously We've both been pretty busy! If you can,get yourself back on the board. theres a lot of Extremism around at the moment,which is the reason the worlds so f*ed up. It'd be nice to have you back to prop up the sanity! Have a good auzzie beer for me.
 
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David Blue    RE:Hi BSL, Tommy Atkins, and other old friends.   5/4/2002 11:09:35 PM
I haven't seen any funeral tape. I was at the alleged demonstration in Sydney, on May 1, because it was on my way in down. It was truly pathetic -- a miniscule troupe of ultra-hard lefties (the kind for whom the party is their life) performing for a television camera. The biggest action I saw was an old lady on a bus, who was laughing so hard I was afraid she'd have a heart attack at an anarchist banner: RICH BASTARDS YOUR TIME HAS COME! and other stuff about how the revolution had arrived. Media coverage is slanted against Israel. The most objective news in general (not just on Israel) is generally the Australian government stuff (ABC, equivalent to British BBC), and it still sucks. Scan the headlines if you doubt me: link Thanks for the general info. Oh, and it's never "Jews" they want to kill: it's "Zionists" -- like anyone who goes to a disco or a cafe. Ri-ight.
 
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David Blue    RE:Hi BSL, Tommy Atkins, and other old friends.To Dave   5/4/2002 11:20:14 PM
Hi, Tommy (and hi Jay, and Phoenix Rising, and Vulture and add names of people worth talking to, ad lib. I'll see if I've got time. But frankly I haven't got much information to add, and from the amount of empty chatter around, neither have a lot of other people. It looks like a lot of people need to get a life. (shrug) Good on you though. It's always good to touch base from time to time.
 
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Phoenix Rising    RE:Hi BSL, Tommy Atkins, and other old friends.To Dave   5/5/2002 12:00:42 AM
There's been some empty chatter, but then again, there always is on the message boards. You've actually missed some good stuff, some of it dealing with national security in much broader terms than military power and use, too. There was a great (IMO) discussion on the Saudi Arabia board about the future of energy and the role of plentiful and economical energy in the construction and maintenance of first-world civilizations. It was a little boring, but it was a change from the numbing pro-American/anti-American bashing that's becoming commonplace on the Israel board (formerly on the Afghanistan board) and elsewhere. You also missed a fairly interesting bit of "speculative geopolitics" (bsl's term, not mine) regarding the future of U.S.-Asian vs. U.S.-European relations. Those were my favorites among the recent threads. Right now, I think a lot of us are waiting with baited breath for something substantial to happen with regards to Iraq, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is just a diversion. Israel will be able to operate more freely once we're capturing the world's eye in Iraq, though hoe much more so is still a matter for discussion. (Which we haven't gotten to here yet!) Try digging up a working video of that fake funeral; it was fairly precious. I'm surprised that Israel hasn't released more of those, even if it does mean potentially jeopardizing classified capabilities and methods. "The Truth" is simply our newest incarnation of Malrait, Chief, Cool, whatever his alias was when you were last here. Not saying he's the same person, but he plays the same role. You'll get used to ignoring him after a while, and he'll vanish or reinvent himself under another alias. A lot of the more eloquent and thoughtful posters left for a long time. Yourself, Jeff from Michigan, madhukar, and Pakistani were among the most interesting of these; some have checked in from time to time, but I guess SP has lost its interest or they've lost their free time, or both. I especially missed the more rational international folks, so it's good to have you back. --Phoenix Rising
 
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bsl    RE:Hi BSL, Tommy Atkins, and other old friends.   5/5/2002 11:57:00 PM
Welcome back, David.
 
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