I wasnt' trying to be sarcarstic at all, and all my apologies if I sounded so. If there is someone who has the outmost respect for the "Anglo-Saxon naval mind" that one is me.

 

You said "As far as protecting commerce goes, what would you be protecting it from? Does Israel have any potential enemies that is a noted naval power?" 

and I am happy to see that you agree with me on the point. Like I said in my previous post, Israel does not have any potential enemy among the major navies operating in the Mediterranean. But like I said in my previous post as well, situations might change, and it is the duty of the military brains of a country to be reasonably prepared to these changes. A couple of years ago, in Livorno, a huge Kriegspiel has been played - among many that year - under the hypotesis that some european navies would make a move to blockade Israeli commercial traffic in and out the Mediterranean Sea, before it arrived in the areas covered by the Israeli air forces. The result was disastrous for the Jewish country. of course this Kriegspiel had no political assumption wathsoever, it was just a pure operational "armchair admirals exercise".
 The exercice was conducted in a way to tactically avoid the massive intervention of the Israeli Air Force, whose tactical ability to cooperate with the Navy from the land is uncertiain, even though in the kriegspiel sometimes Israeli aircraft managed to reach some battle areas by means of extensive tanker usage. 

Like I already said, if Israel is ever intentioned to upgrade its navy, it will presumably choose their docrinal advisors from the same country that would supply the know how to build major surface combatants. I realistically think that advise could come more or less by any western navy. A German collaboration might be realistic to think about, since there is an already going on joint work on submarines. 

I hope I clarified 
luigi.delta 
 

Actual enemies: none.

Having a strong naval component with land-attack capabilities and shore-battery immunity would, however, constitute a deterrent against Syria, which has much of its economy (e.g. refineries) concentrated on its coastal strip, and which depends on its sea-ports for much of its sustenance.

 

Potential enemies:

Egypt.

Turkey.

Russia.

And, of course, the hereditary one, Greece.

Hereditary? Israel hasn't fought a war with Greece since Judah Maccabee.

And if Israel is ever in a a real war with Russia all it can do is pray and hope it does a Finland. Or else hope America

comes in if Israel is in a Samsonesque mood.

 Turkey is a more obvious point though. Turkey could conceivably be taken over by a Islamisist coup. That seems unlikly

to me but not unlikly enough not to leave the point out of account.

Actually, though the main operational use for an Israeli navy  would be as an amphibious arm. Which has been the most notable use

of Meditteranean Navies since Themistocles anyway. 

 

Fine enough. A quarrel prevented by explanation and mutual goodwill. Mark the date down. A unique event

has happened. People have actually been reasonable to one another.

I don't think the Israel navy really wants frigates.

I agree.  Israel's surface navy is most likely to be used for coastal defense, and coastal actions against terrorists.  Even in the event of a full on war with the Arabs, there is not much for frigates to do.  Western frigates were built to be part of battle-groups, or escorts, where they need a lot of sea-going ability.  When the Dutch deploy a task force to the Carribean to let Chavez know he can't have Aruba for free, they need frigates.  But raiding the coast of Lebanon?  The little Israeli boats have the same 3" gun that a frigate does and can do the same bombardment work.  The greatest fear is a lucky hit by a missile fired by a terrorist group.  If so, the same missile would put a frigate out of action.  One patrol boat sunk out of dozens is far less of a military (or propaganda) victory than 1 of the handful of theoretical frigates, if it were hit and crippled by a missile.

 

SGTObvious

<<

 

An Israeli naval strategic arm? Hmm...

Whimsy makes me imagine a scenario... 

OMG! It's the Israeli fleet off of Cony Island! Save the hot dogs! 

Not unless they're kosher!

 Which reminds me of a story from the War of Independance. There was a group of French monks caught in Jerusalem during the siege. However they lived well as neither the Jews nor the Arabs would plunder them. The reason was that their chief food source was pork.

 

 

Naples? Or the Meditteranean? Or simply the swimming pool outside his hotel?

I guess the mediterranean

Before the advent of large sailing vessels, practically no one even thought of complete control of the Med. The

exceptions being Rome and possibly Carthage. However it is true that every major navy except Japan and the Hanse(do they count?) has had something to do with the Meditteranean.

They'll only be after the kosher ones.

Coney Island's beloved Nathan's Hot Dogs are safe.

 

SGTObvious

The Persian/Greek Wars show you what loss of the seas does to you. You get Greeks bearing sharp pointy gifts.

 

 

Do you have any information about when Petty Officer Capriotti was in Hawaii?

The timing would be significant as it could be coincident as to when the PacFLT opened its underwater demolition swimmer school.

 

That would be the mid to later half of 1942.

 

Curious.

 

Herald

 

Herald,

 

according to my sources, Fiorenzo Capriotti was in Missouri up to the end of 1942. He was declared a "non cooperating Italian prisoner" and sent in Hawaii after that. As for the cooperation of the Italians to help starting with what would then become the US Navy Seals, months ago I put my eyes on a declassified document of the OSS somewhere on the net. I lost its traces, but I will have no peace until I find it again.

Here is a picture of petty officer Capriotti with some of his Israeli "grandsons" of the 13th naval commando flottilla.

respectfully

luigi.delta