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Subject: Jews' Talmud vs. Muslims' Koran
Billiam    2/15/2005 11:04:41 AM
I agree that a lot can be derived about a religion & culture from the teachings its society confers on its members. I've always believed religion is a major cause of conflict in the world, perhaps *the* primary driver. I've seen a lot of people bashing the Koran. If the writing it to be taken literally, rightfully so: there's a lot of racist, intolerant, savage, and downright violent messages in there. But - is the Talmud, the Jewish holy book, any different? Traditionally, the Talmud is the supreme sourcebook of Law, as it takes the rules listed in the Torah and describes how to apply them to different circumstances. Take a look at some of these "holy" instructions taken from the Talmud, and make a judgment on whether these philosophies make a positive impact on its followers. "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." TALMUD: Baba Mezia, 114b. "The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." TALMUD:Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30. "Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming of a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form." TALMUD: Midrasch Talpioth, p 225, Warsaw 1855. "A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat 405. "Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew as a monkey to a human." TALMUD: Schene luchoth haberuth, p 250b. "The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called pigs." TALMUD: Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b. "If you eat with a non-Jew it is the same as eating with a dog." TALMUD: Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b. "If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his animals had died."" TALMUD: Jore Dea 377. "Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals." TALMUD: Sanhedrin 74b. "It is permitted to take the body and life of a gentile." TALMUD: Sepher Ikkarim III c 25. "It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat, Hagah 425. "A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." TALMUD: Abodah Zara, 4b. "Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." TALMUD: Bammidber raba c 21 & jalkut 772. I don't know about you, but just because I'm not Jewish, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be looked at as a beastly canine unworthy of dining in the company of a Jew. And if I were a gentile, well, then, shoot, it would be like a sacrifice to God to kill me?? Thanks a lot! So, I guess we shouldn't take religious scripture so seriously. If we did, then we'd have to indict the Jewish faith in the same manner that we criticize Islam, etc. My opinion.
 
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sentinel28a    RE:threads on religion   2/18/2005 3:31:52 AM
There's an old Czech saying that wars are started either by women or priests. Given that the present enemy--not just of the US, IMHO, but of anyone with an IQ over 30 and a soul--bases their reason for war around their religion (in this case, Islam), a discussion of religion in a strategy thread is quite appropriate. It would be like trying to discuss the Thirty Years' War without mentioning the frictions between Protestant and Catholics.
 
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YidFunDorum    RE: YidFunDorum   2/18/2005 5:30:35 AM
Ay, yi, yi, I'm dyin' of envy! :-) The thing I personally like about Steinsaltz is that he is extraordinarily accessible. That Guide has everything, doesn't it? Without his section on Aramaic, I'd be lost. In any case, mucho appreciado for the welcome, I hope I can contribute a bit nore to the Great Conversation here once in a while. I flit back between here (for details & background) & the ABCnews.com message boards (I'm DMH0667 over there), and in fact I'm having a whale of a time as of late with folks over there.
 
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Godofgamblers    RE:threads on religion: sentinel   2/18/2005 6:29:22 AM
you make a good point, as does reefdiver, that religion is an issue. i concede that it is part of the conflict if not even the driver of the conflict. however, i was referring to topics like the one here Jewish Talmud and Islamic Koran etc which are nothing but hate messages. i am not adverse to discussing religion when it intersects with strategy, but i think the danger is that the discussion rapidly degenerates. reading the above topic with bizarre quotes and hate messages, don't you wonder what it's doing on a message board about war and strategy? the india/pakistan board is like this. half the topics are about the treatment of indian/pak women etc. ok, i have nothing against women's issues, but is this the place to discuss them? however, if both sides are reasonable and open minded, i will happily entertain discussions on religion... but is billiam's topic in this category? just my view. regards
 
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