Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Israel Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Jews' Talmud vs. Muslims' Koran
Billiam    2/15/2005 11:04:41 AM
I agree that a lot can be derived about a religion & culture from the teachings its society confers on its members. I've always believed religion is a major cause of conflict in the world, perhaps *the* primary driver. I've seen a lot of people bashing the Koran. If the writing it to be taken literally, rightfully so: there's a lot of racist, intolerant, savage, and downright violent messages in there. But - is the Talmud, the Jewish holy book, any different? Traditionally, the Talmud is the supreme sourcebook of Law, as it takes the rules listed in the Torah and describes how to apply them to different circumstances. Take a look at some of these "holy" instructions taken from the Talmud, and make a judgment on whether these philosophies make a positive impact on its followers. "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." TALMUD: Baba Mezia, 114b. "The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew." TALMUD:Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30. "Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming of a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form." TALMUD: Midrasch Talpioth, p 225, Warsaw 1855. "A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat 405. "Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew as a monkey to a human." TALMUD: Schene luchoth haberuth, p 250b. "The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called pigs." TALMUD: Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b. "If you eat with a non-Jew it is the same as eating with a dog." TALMUD: Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b. "If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his animals had died."" TALMUD: Jore Dea 377. "Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals." TALMUD: Sanhedrin 74b. "It is permitted to take the body and life of a gentile." TALMUD: Sepher Ikkarim III c 25. "It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah." TALMUD: Coschen Hamischpat, Hagah 425. "A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands." TALMUD: Abodah Zara, 4b. "Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God." TALMUD: Bammidber raba c 21 & jalkut 772. I don't know about you, but just because I'm not Jewish, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be looked at as a beastly canine unworthy of dining in the company of a Jew. And if I were a gentile, well, then, shoot, it would be like a sacrifice to God to kill me?? Thanks a lot! So, I guess we shouldn't take religious scripture so seriously. If we did, then we'd have to indict the Jewish faith in the same manner that we criticize Islam, etc. My opinion.
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest

Pages: PREV  1 2 3   NEXT
Final Historian    Intolerance   2/16/2005 4:32:53 PM
"All religions are bigoted and intolerant. If you don't like it, take up atheism." Something tells me that you didn't get the irony in this statement.
 
Quote    Reply

Shirrush    RE: YidFunDorum   2/17/2005 10:16:19 AM
Eat your heart out. They now have the whole Soncino edition on sale for $ 129.- only, and it's not even my birthday! How irritating! In the meantime, I've ordered Steinsalz's Guide to the Talmud for only NIS 89.- at my local bookstore, so that I can start solving that ignorance problem of mine. Anyway, welcome back to this board, sir. You had been missed.
 
Quote    Reply

TexasTech    RE:Jews' Talmud vs. Muslims' Koran   2/17/2005 1:33:16 PM
have yall seen passion of christ?
 
Quote    Reply

sentinel28a    RE:Jews' Talmud vs. Muslims' Koran   2/17/2005 2:27:18 PM
I haven't seen all of it, but what I did see was impressive, both from a religious and historical standpoint. Wags have called it the "Jesus Chainsaw Massacre" because of all the blood and abuse--but these people seem to forget that the world is a violent place, and the Romans weren't exactly known for their kindness to prisoners. I didn't find anything anti-Semitic about it in the least, and as I recall, Mel Gibson had a Talmudic scholar on hand for historical verification. Wow. Between this thread and a book I picked up yesterday ("What's Wrong With Islam Today"), I'm learning a lot.
 
Quote    Reply

Shirrush    RE: Pre-Talmudic Judaism!   2/17/2005 5:40:43 PM
The Story of Jesus of Nazareth preceded the Talmudist's adventure by some two centuries. Everything about them was different: Jesus lived in troubled, brutal times, in what was then a harsh, arid and densely populated, "industrialized" country torn apart by competing ideologies, political unstability, corruption of the elites, and foreign occupation. Jesus had issues with what was going on in the Temple of Jerusalem and it's priesthood, that themselves were only a sore memory for the Talmudists, since the Roman general Titus had looted it and burned it down in 70 AD. Jesus was fluent in Hebrew, prefered to speak Aramaic, and the world around him used Greek for business and official transactions. The Talmudist's world was peaceful, relatively stable and affluent, and two great, mighty rivers majestuously flowed through it. (On the Rivers of Babylon..) They spoke Aramaic and prayed in Hebrew too, but they had more use for Persian, than for Greek. In fact, the only clear thing Jesus and the Sages of Sura and Pumbeditha had in common was the fact that they were all, well, rabbis.
 
Quote    Reply

reefdiver    RE:Jews' Talmud vs. Muslims' Koran   2/17/2005 6:50:16 PM
This topic is irrevelant. In spite of what the Talmud, Torah, Koran, or New Testament may say - Jews are not preaching that all Muslims must be destroyed. Only Muslims (and yes - not all Muslims...) are preaching that Jews, Americans, and every other non-muslim should be destroyed. In light of this it is indeed an interesting contrast that Jewish historical and religious writing may say some of the same things as the Koran about non-believers. Lets face it, few if any religions have been free of a violent past (witness a few centuries of persecution and genocide by the Catholic Church and its proxies). However, most have "grown up", evolved, learned, and moved in a more positive direction. Islam has unfortunately, not only gone stagnant, but perhaps even take a step backwards in some parts of the world, and not been able to get past dangerous literal interpretations of the Koran and its historical context. Someday, just like Christians and Jews for the mostpart, perhaps it will. It is most unfortunate that many Muslims, representing a substantial part of humanity, funnel so much of their energy into hatred and intolerance instead of positive endeavors.
 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers    reefdiver: your comments on islam   2/17/2005 9:56:52 PM
yes, the muslim golden age is past and is in an age of decline. no one would argue that. there are few muslim nobel prize winners and little intellectual activity. historically, this was not always the case. however, be careful of thinking of islam as the middle east. most muslims are actually in SE Asia. indonesia has a population of 200M. what is the population of saudi arabia? indonesia have no sunni or shiite muslims; they would be hard pressed to say what 'school' of islam they belong to. they are very moderate. indonesia is closer to HK or Singapore than Saudi Arabia. these facts detract somewhat from your comments on islam. much attention has been attracted by Mahatir. if you know the situation in malaysia, his behavior becomes completely understandable; malays make up a slight majority in malaysia (51%) and the chinese 49%, but the chinese control 95% of the economy. the malays control the political process. their only revenge against the chinese is thru adopting over the top islamic rhetoric and policies. the world sees malaysia as a muslim country. actually once you scratch the surface it is more chinese than islamic...
 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers    threads on religion   2/17/2005 10:03:21 PM
in general, i'm not crazy about threads on judaism, islam, etc. after all, what's the point? this is a strategy board isn't it? i'm muslim but i don't like talking about religion... it's a personal matter. talking about it in public just seems to be a way to spread hatred or attack others. can we stick to strategy? i'm not addressing reefdiver or any of the other posters here, by the way, but the ones who are putting these topics up.
 
Quote    Reply

reefdiver    RE:reefdiver: your comments on islam   2/17/2005 10:33:49 PM
Agreed - I was not talking about the ME, but Islam in general. And as for the "threads on religion" post - you're right also. Religion discussions get almost as ugly as the F-16 vs the Mig-29 or those about one country can kick another's butt. Understanding Islam, its motives and how it affects world events, strategy, and tactics is however pertinent today. Military options today, especially in the ME must take religions into consideration - witness Islam and Judaism. However, getting into pissing matches over religion (as somewhat in this thread) are generally pointless and I wouldn't think should be a part of these discussions.
 
Quote    Reply

Godofgamblers    RE:reefdiver: your comments on islam   2/17/2005 11:18:36 PM
"Religion discussions get almost as ugly as the F-16 vs the Mig-29" ??!! oh yeah? i had no idea. i'll have to check out that forum he he, i had no idea it caused so much passion. thanks for your comments.
 
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3   NEXT



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2012StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy