Yom Kippur War-Who won?

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Vulture 2/14/2009 12:42:01 PM

Well know we know.

Why arabs and some muslims think they won. They bookmark posts and the sources of people like truth123 and fervently believe it while ignoring cited historical facts. Yes you can believe anything if you filter your data from the internet. They think they beat the israelis, they think the Soviets forced the egyptians to lose their tanks(if it broke, it is the will of allah and I am too lazy to actually do maintenance, so I will also blame the soviets since they are not here in front of me!) , they think that civilians beat off an israeli army attack (how? the egyptian women and children acted as human shields maybe and since the israelis did not kill them, they claim that they had won?)

Seriously people say I am dismissive of muslims and progressives (21st century socialists). But I see the same thing in their words, delusions and fantasies of a history that never was.

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swhitebull 2/14/2009 1:18:55 PM

Well know we know.

Seriously people say I am dismissive of muslims and progressives (21st century socialists). But I see the same thing in their words, delusions and fantasies of a history that never was.

Sigh - another delusionist heard from. Must take his name from Pravda. you know the old saying ? There is no Pravda in Pravda. trans - Truth

swhitebull - not even gonna get into this one - its been covered ad nauseum in this and many threads before on who won on the battlefield or not. This guy obviously doesnt know what he's talking about, hasnt read the DuPuy's analysis, or the Suez City battle, or looked at the map on the day of the final ceasefire. The Egyptians can thank the Israelis that the Israelis are not russians, or Suez City would have gotten the Grozny treatment, damn the civilians.

swhitebull - waiting for the vaunted military and political analysis to come from The Truth. btw, SysOps confirmed to me in an email that has an Arabic-sounding name when I inquired, didnt want to know it, but at least if it were the "Truth" that it was! That explains a lot of the rationale here to delusional thinking and an inability to comprehend reality.

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truth123 2/14/2009 1:46:00 PM

i didn't say the soviets forced us to lose tanks i said they forced us to attack when the odds were not in our favour.

suez city battle was a complete failure to the israels as they were unable to take the city. and even if the egyptians used human shields (which they did not), you think the israelis would give a shit? you saw what happened in the recent Gaza - Israel war. 1300 palestinians dead, majority were civilians. i have video footage of the battle of Suez, and it shows civilians taking up rpg's and destroying israeli tanks within the city. here's a clip, watch all 4 parts, and you'll see the reality of the war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?g...

And as for the borders after the ceasefire, the egyptians had several kilometres of the sinai, and the israelis had a bulk of land within in egypt. once talks began, the israelis agreed to withdraw their forces. why would they do this? this did not occur on the syrian front. they agreed because they were in a dire situation, surrounded just as badly as the egyptian 3rd army, and with no supplies.

i clearly analyzed every singly aspect of the war, and countered your arguements. i don't think any of you read my first post thoroughly, because if you did, you would not be saying any of this.

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battar Us and them 2/14/2009 2:41:44 PM

Truth123,

Did you say "Soviets forced us to lose tanks"? Who is "us" ? If you are a citizen of any of the countries directly involved in the 1973 war, you should consider the strong possibility that you government is witholding the whole truth from you, for any number of reasons. In Israel, where there is a free press, you can expect better access to the facts. Of course, Isarel and Egypt were not the only players in the game. I can tell you who lost for certain - the Syrians. They are in no better position now than they were 35 years ago. If they had followed Egypts' lead in going for the more peaceful options, there is a fair chance they would have regained the Golan.

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jastayme3 2/14/2009 3:23:45 PM

Look everybody. Truth could easily be an Egyptian government operative. In which case we are being taken for

a lot of fools. If not, it is obvious that he is at least a troll and hasn't demonstrated enough knowledge or debating

skill to make the discussion worth the bother. Let's everyone go away and send mr truth to coventry.

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RPL 2/14/2009 8:26:07 PM

I realize I'm coming to this discussion late, and I apologize if this has been covered before, but here goes. As to who one the war, Israel defeated the Syrians both tactically and strategically. If you follow Clauswitz's theory that war is the extension of politics by other means, then Egypt lost the war tactically. Strategically, however, the goal was to get Sinai back. By that measure, they succeeded. In fact, as a result of this, Israel and Egypt have had peace since 1979, which was a direct result of the Yom Kippur War. FWIW, Muslims refer to this war as The Ramadan War. While it's been a cold peace, it's still peace.

Bottom line: Syria lost big time, Egypt got the Sinai, and Israel got peace. In the end, I'd say Israel won.

By the way, if the story that I heard is true, the US had gone to DEFCON 3. The Russians had moved their airborne divisions, and we had lost track of them. In military parlance, they had been taken off the board. The US and the Israelis were ready to use nukes at one point, but cooler heads prevailed.

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Vulture 2/15/2009 2:15:02 PM

Damn so Truth123 is an egyptian who does not understand his own history. Or that Sadat was an idiotic backstabbing leader who ended up forcing the situation where Egypt recognizes Israel , enforces the gaza border and is dependent on the US for aid.

/But no Pravda123 claims it is the Soviet's fault, even thought Eyptian generals set the plan of attack and Sadat signed off on it. Sure must suck to revere a man that history shows to be a loser.

// still no reason not to be dismissive of his sort. Hell he can't even understand the the implicaitons of the english commentary of his own link.

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bigfella 2/18/2009 10:03:50 PM

Must take his name from Pravda. you know the old saying ? There is no Pravda in Pravda. trans - Truth - swhitebull

Another varient is 'There is no Izvestia (news) in Pravda (truth) & no Pravda in Izvestia'. Say what you will about the Russians, they have a great sense of humour (probably need it).

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