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Subject: Sadr reappears
Plutarch    5/25/2007 12:14:52 PM
What was that about Sadr being in Iran?

Radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr appeared in public for the first time in months on Friday, delivering a fiery anti-American sermon to thousands of followers and demanding U.S. troops leave Iraq.
It was not immediately clear why he chose to return now to his base in the Shiite holy city of Najaf from Iran. His speech had new nationalist overtones, calling on Sunnis to join with him in the fight against the U.S. presence. He also criticized the government's inability to provide reliable services to its people.
Al-Sadr's reappearance, four months after he went underground at the start of the U.S.-led Baghdad security crackdown, came just hours before his Mahdi Army militia lost its top commander in the southern city of Basra in a gunbattle with British soldiers, Iraqi police said

link

Sadr was supposed to have run scared from the surge, and hid in Iran, but wherever he went, he's back, and as influential as ever.
 
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Panther       5/25/2007 12:44:26 PM
I'm actually surprised that he waited this long, what with his supporters feeling abandoned by Sadr at the start of the surge! He's got alot of politicking & butt kissing to make up for his cowardly flight. It seems he has lost alot of ground!
 
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Panther       5/25/2007 12:46:35 PM
Sadr was supposed to have run scared from the surge, and hid in Iran, but wherever he went, he's back, and as influential as ever.
 
Perhaps, you and i are interpreting this quite differently!
 
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Plutarch       5/25/2007 2:12:21 PM

Sadr was supposed to have run scared from the surge, and hid in Iran, but wherever he went, he's back, and as influential as ever.
 

Perhaps, you and i are interpreting this quite differently!



Sadr was probably in Iraq all along as he had direct control  over his flock; calling for protests last month and removing his cabinet officials.  It's hard to see how he could have done these things if he was in Iran.  He probably chose now to appear because he has weathered most of the "surge", and senses Maliki has weakened a great deal.  Also with Hakim of the terrorist organization SCIRI being treated for cancer in Iran Sadr has an opportunity to fill the power vaccum.  
 
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PlatypusMaximus       5/25/2007 2:31:08 PM
Oh, he was scared....4 months underground...That's like 50 years with your math...
 
 
He's probably betting we won't stir the shizz in his filthy hood untill we talk to Iran on Monday.
 
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Bob       5/25/2007 3:30:07 PM

Sadr was supposed to have run scared from the surge, and hid in Iran, but wherever he went, he's back, and as influential as ever.
Now you can break out your foam fingers and party poppers!

 
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swhitebull       5/25/2007 3:55:09 PM

What was that about Sadr being in Iran?

Radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr appeared in public for the first time in months on Friday, delivering a fiery anti-American sermon to thousands of followers and demanding U.S. troops leave Iraq.
It was not immediately clear why he chose to return now to his base in the Shiite holy city of Najaf from Iran. His speech had new nationalist overtones, calling on Sunnis to join with him in the fight against the U.S. presence. He also criticized the government's inability to provide reliable services to its people.
Al-Sadr's reappearance, four months after he went underground at the start of the U.S.-led Baghdad security crackdown, came just hours before his Mahdi Army militia lost its top commander in the southern city of Basra in a gunbattle with British soldiers, Iraqi police said
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070525/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq"" target="_blank">link target=_blank href_cetemp="
link" target="_blank">link

Sadr was supposed to have run scared from the surge, and hid in Iran, but wherever he went, he's back, and as influential as ever.

You are quoting a REVISED article, with a different writer. The original article stated the following:
 
 
Radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr appeared in public for the first time in months on Friday and delivered a fiery anti-American sermon in the holy Shiite city of Kufa.

"No, no for the devil. No, no for America. No, no for the occupation. No, no for Israel," he chanted at the start of his speech. The roughly 6,000 worshippers in the mosque repeated after him.

Al-Sadr told the worshippers that "the occupation forces should leave Iraq," and condemned fighting between his Mahdi Army militia and Iraqi security forces, saying it "served the interests of the occupiers."

Al-Sadr had gone into hiding in Iran four months ago at the start of the Baghdad security crackdown, but U.S. military officials said early Friday that he had returned to the holy city of Najaf, where he has a house.

 
Wayback machines are wonderful. as is Captain Ed's post from 5:42 AM today, with the original article, which has now been edited.
 

Look Who's Showing His Face Again

After an absence of almost four months from public life, Moqtada al-Sadr finally surfaced in the city of Kufa today. He did his typical anti-US, anti-Israel rant at Friday prayers, the first time he has been seen in Iraq since before the surge:

Radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr appeared in public for the first time in months on Friday and delivered a fiery anti-American sermon in the holy Shiite city of Kufa.

"No, no for the devil. No, no for America. No, no for the occupation. No, no for Israel," he chanted at the start of his speech. The roughly 6,000 worshippers in the mosque repeated after him.

Al-Sadr told the worshippers that "the occupation forces should leave Iraq," and condemned fighting between his Mahdi Army militia and Iraqi security forces, saying it "served the interests of the occupiers."

Al-Sadr had gone into hiding in Iran four months ago at the start of the Baghdad security crackdown, but U.S. military officials said early Friday that he had returned to the holy city of Najaf, where he has a house.

 

So why now? After all, Sadr had been mailing it in from Iran for four months, afraid that the US surge meant to target him personally. Even after he saw that it remained limited to Baghdad, Diyala, and Anbar and didn't involve Najaf, he kept out of sight and out of Iraq. It hardly presented a profile in courage for Iraqis, most of whose politicians and elected officers (including the Sadrists) remained where they were.

Typically, he sees an opportunity or two to feast off the misery of others. The AP reports that one rival on the Supreme Islamic Council of imams in Iraq has lung cancer and had to go to Iran himself for medical treatment. Sadr wants to replace him as leader of the council while he's weak. Also, many people question whether the Maliki government will survive, and even though Maliki allied himself with Sadr politically, Sadr wants to be in position to exploit Maliki's weakness as well.

One other point in this article bears criticism. Sinan Salaheddin, writing for the AP, asserts that the "Mahdi Army fought U.S. troops to a virtual standstill in 2004". That's ludicrous. The US beat the Mahdis badly enough that Sadr had to sue for peace through his rival, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. As part of that surrender, Sadr had to pull the Mahdis out of Kufa and Najaf and had to promise to work within the political system instead of conducting military attacks against it. The only "standstill" came when Sadr got trapped by the collapse of his militia in Najaf and had to cut a deal to survive.

*****************************************************
 
 
swhitebull  ---   Regardless,  he BUGGED OUT and abandoned his evil minions in order to protect his own hide when the surge was announced, which was the point of my original post, and which resulted in you getting your panties in a knot over whether he was in Iran or not, rather than analyzing the causes of his bugging out. Trees and forests and tunnel vision, Plutie.
 
As is typical for the Middle East, he would have either been killed, or been engaged in intense negotiations with the powers that be to ensure conditions for his safe return.
 
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Plutarch       5/25/2007 4:47:45 PM

swhitebull  ---   Regardless,  he BUGGED OUT and abandoned his evil minions in order to protect his own hide when the surge was announced, which was the point of my original post, and which resulted in you getting your panties in a knot over whether he was in Iran or not, rather than analyzing the causes of his bugging out. Trees and forests and tunnel vision, Plutie.

 

Going underground in Iraq to avoid assassination attempts like this one:

 

link

 

 

While still manipulating the politics from behind the scenes is not quite the same thing as hiding in Iran.   One denotes shrewdness the other cowardice, but subtly, and gray areas have always been lost on you haven’t they swhitebull?  That your initial analysis was wrong is not my problem. The surge is still ongoing yet the Mahdi Army has not been reduced in strength, the Sadrists pulled out of the Iraqi government severely weakening Maliki, and Sadr still remains in control.  How did he BUG OUT, how was he scared; he rarely makes public appearances anyway? If we don’t hear from him for another four months are you still going to claim he is scared? 

Sadr makes anti-American remarks, urges his followers to protest US presence in Iraq, removes his ministers from the cabinet, and has his JAM army engage both coalition targets and Sunnis, but he is so scared of the surge because he doesn’t speak in public for four months. 

 

Do you see a disconnect here, the reality doesn’t match the rhetoric.

 
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Pseudonym       5/25/2007 5:38:02 PM
"Sadr makes anti-American remarks, urges his followers to protest US presence in Iraq, removes his ministers from the cabinet, and has his JAM army engage both coalition targets and Sunnis, but he is so scared of the surge because he doesn’t speak in public for four months."

He just like to hide you silly Republicans.

Didn't you ever play hide and seek?
 
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PlatypusMaximus       5/25/2007 7:14:40 PM

National Guard 1, Mahdi Army 0

In Sadr City, an altercation involving a member of the Mahdi Army and an Iraqi National Guard officer didn’t turn out well for the militia. The Mahdi Army member confronted the officers at a National Guard checkpoint, telling them that the neighborhood didn't want any protection from the Guard. A National Guard officer told the Mahdi Army man that they would remove the checkpoint if the people of the area didn’t want them there. The people who had gathered around the checkpoint grew angry with that idea, telling the Mahdi Army man in harsh language to keep quiet, and apologizing to the officer. The checkpoint stayed in place.

 
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PlatypusMaximus       5/25/2007 7:15:52 PM
Baghdad, Feb 28, (VOI) – Main security developments in Iraq on Wednesday:

 

Mosul- Unidentified gunmen shot and killed on Wednesday a senior Iraqi police officer along with two of his companions in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, a police source said.

Falluja- Unknown gunmen waged on Wednesday an attack at a U.S. base in west of Falluja, 45 km west of Baghdad, a security source said.

Basra- A British soldier died on Wednesday of wounds sustained from an attack with small-arms fire in the southern Iraqi city of Basra, spokeswoman for the British forces in southern Iraq on Wednesday.

Hilla- Two Iraqi policemen were killed on Wednesday when mortar shells landed onto a police checkpoint north of Hilla, 100 km south of Baghdad, a police source said.

Falluja- An Iraqi army base was attacked on Wednesday afternoon with mortar shells near Falluja city, 45 km west of Baghdad, a security source said.

Baghdad- At least two Iraqi policemen were killed and four more were wounded on Wednesday when a booby-trapped car went off targeting a police station in central Baghdad, a police source said.

Baghdad- Unidentified gunmen killed on Wednesday two brothers of the parliament member and spokesman for the Sunni Iraqi Accordance Front Salim al-Juburi, a police source said.

Diala- Iraqi police forces killed on Wednesday a gunman and freed a captive during a security crackdown in west of Diala province, 57 km northeast of Baghdad, a police source said.

Baghdad- U.S. forces shot dead two Iraqis in south of Tikrit, 175 km north of Baghdad, while armed men killed a civilian in north of the city, a security source said on Wednesday.

Kirkuk- Four Iraqi soldiers were wounded Wednesday when an explosive device went off on the highway southwest of Kirkuk, 250km northeast Baghdad, while an official in Kirkuk police department survived an attempt on his life in south of the city, a police source said.

Falluja- At least four people were killed and six others were wounded when two mortar shells were fired onto al-Khalidiyah city, east of Ramadi, 110 km west of Baghdad, an eyewitness said on Wednesday.

Baghdad- At least ten people were killed and 21 others were wounded on Wednesday morning in southern Baghdad, a police source said.

 
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PlatypusMaximus       5/25/2007 7:17:49 PM
May 25, 2007 Baghdad - Voices of Iraq

 

Basra- British forces killed on Friday three leaders from the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi army in the southern Iraqi city of Basra, Sadr's office in Basra said.

 

Baghdad- At least three people were killed and 15 more wounded in two separate attacks in Baghdad on Friday, a police source said.

Baghdad- Iraqi police forces found twenty unidentified corpses in different parts of Baghdad, a police source said on Friday.

Diala- The commander of the 5th Division of the Iraqi army stationed in Diala province was sacked and referred to trial, an Iraqi army source said on Friday.

Falluja- U.S. forces imposed a curfew on the city of Falluja till next Tuesday, a source in the city's local council said on Friday.

Falluja – Two civilians were killed and nine others wounded when a car bomb went off near an Iraqi policeman's house, said an Iraqi police source in Falluja, the largest city in the Sunni province of al-Anbar.

Kut – U.S. fighter jets and reconnaissance planes were seen hovering intensively over the city of Kut, 180 km southeast of Baghdad, local residents said.

Baghdad – Seven U.S. soldiers were killed and six others wounded in separate incidents during the last 48 hours, upping to 91 the number of U.S. soldiers killed during this month, and to 3,442 the number since the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, the U.S. army said.

Diala – Twelve people, including four policemen, were wounded when a car rigged with explosives ripped through central al-Muqdadiya town, Diala province, the Iraqi police said.

Kirkuk – One civilian was wounded when an explosive device went off near his vehicle on the Kirkuk-Baghdad highway, south of Kirkuk, an official police source said.

 
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swhitebull       5/25/2007 9:01:21 PM


swhitebull  ---   Regardless,  he BUGGED OUT and abandoned his evil minions in order to protect his own hide when the surge was announced, which was the point of my original post, and which resulted in you getting your panties in a knot over whether he was in Iran or not, rather than analyzing the causes of his bugging out. Trees and forests and tunnel vision, Plutie.


 


Going underground in Iraq to avoid assassination attempts like this one:


 


link

 


 


While still manipulating the politics from behind the scenes is not quite the same thing as hiding in Iran.   One denotes shrewdness the other cowardice, but subtly, and gray areas have always been lost on you haven’t they swhitebull? 


Yep -  just a bull in a china shop -  but one able to differentiate between right and wrong, friends and enemies, and a Manichaean approach to politics. There ARE moral absolutes, and if you want to tie yourself in knots over the definition of bugouts,  fine with me.  \


But please, show me how my initial analysis was wrong - Sadr left the scene, TO TEHERAN, and nothing you have ever shown refutes this, other than to scream that it wasnt so, his mahdi army broke into factional fighting in his absence, the withdrawal of his thugs from parliament actually strengthened Maliki, not weakened him, because it removed a disruptive element challenging Maliki's coalition - if someone who chooses to take his toys away when the going gets tough, winds up marginalizing the effectiveness of his own power, and removes himself from the center of power, which it will be unlikely to regain,that's pretty stupid -  the people in the streets would rather have the NG patrolling rather than the Mahdi thugs, and he is still a marked man with a warrant over his head for engineering the assassination of another cleric. 

Your analysis is as faulty as your inability to see any kind of strategic picture in the marginalization of al-Sadr. View this as a last-gasp effort on his part to regain the powerbase he squandered, and it all makes sense. He WAS looked upon as a coward by the people he and his thugs terrorized - you fail to see the SUBTLETY of all this - even if it is staring you in the face. Perception becomes reality, and the reality is that 4 months of no Sadr has shown a shift in allegiances in the neighborhoods his Mahdi thugs USED to control.


That your initial analysis was wrong is not my problem. 
 
Apparently is was, since you tied yourself in knots trying to PROVE that Sadr didnt bug out to Teheran.

The surge is still ongoing yet the Mahdi Army has not been reduced in strength, the Sadrists pulled out of the Iraqi government severely weakening Maliki, and Sadr still remains in control.  How did he BUG OUT, how was he scared; he rarely makes public appearances anyway? If we don’t hear from him for another four months are you still going to claim he is scared? 

Sadr makes anti-American remarks, urges his followers to protest US presence in Iraq, removes his ministers from the cabinet, and has his JAM army engage both coalition targets and Sunnis, but he is so scared of the surge because he doesn’t speak in public for four months. 

 


Do you see a disconnect here, the reality doesn’t match the rhetoric.





swhitebull - i suggest a bit more subtlety on your part in studying the actual situation thru military bloggers might yield a different picture in subtlety than the one you are groping to articulate. Even better would be an actual background in middle east history and politics, rather than in african affairs.
 
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VelocityVector       5/26/2007 8:41:05 PM

"Sadr" became a real grump following his departure from the cartoon scene.  He copied Cat Stevens by adopting Islam, grew a beard and moved to the ME:



I'm Mister Green Christmas
I'm Mister Sun
I'm Mister Heat Blister
I'm Mister Hundred and One

They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch

I'm too much!

He's Mister Green Christmas
He's Mister Sun
He's Mister Heat Blister
He's Mister Hundred and One

They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch

He's too much!

Thank you!

I never want to see a day
That's under sixty degrees
I'd rather have it eighty,
Ninety, one hundred degrees!
(spoken)

Oh, some like it hot, but I like it
REALLY hot! Hee hee!

He's Mister Green Christmas
He's Mister Sun
Sing it!
He's Mister Heat Blister
He's Mister Hundred and One

They call me Heat Miser,
What ever I touch
Starts to melt in my clutch
I'm too much!
Too Much!

v^2

 
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