I second everything you had to say. I'm not so sure Turkey is an example of the norm, but the exception. Even Turkey has their problems with the PKK. Celebrim ... "As I said near the beginning of the thread, Americans do respect Islam. Many areas of Michigan are now populated by Moslems, and there are smaller numbers of Moslems peaceably living in almost all areas of the nation. We are not passing laws banning tradiational dress. But we don't do these things because we respect Islam particularly, but because we would consider it shameful and dishonorable not to show respect to any group or religion." I'm just wondering if other parts of the US are seeing the signs of intolerance towards Islam that we are around here. Off the top of my head I can think of ten to fifteen incidents of local Mosques being shot up, and we don't have near the Muslim population of places like Michigan. Are there similar incidents from the different areas around the country?

"I second everything you had to say. I'm not so sure Turkey is an example of the norm, but the exception. Even Turkey has their problems with the PKK." We had. PKK was a Marxist-Leninist seperativist terrorist group and also was selling heroine to Europe to have many to buy new weapons. I am using past tense as they were defeated so badly that, they changed their name to Kadek and ceased to make any attack. Ex-Soviet Turkish countries have copied some of our instutions and they are also secular democracies. They are Azerbeycan, Turkmenistan, Kazakistan, Kirgisiztan and Uzbekistan. So Turkey is not an exception anymore.

Thank you. I was trying to tell these for some time but without much success. ... and Bosnia (another ethnic cleansing). And the thing I could not understand that why media called Bosnians as Muslims. They were Bosnians when they were Christians at 15th century. What has changed since then?

"I'm just wondering if other parts of the US are seeing the signs of intolerance towards Islam that we are around here." None that I'm aware of, though Baton Rouge is one of the most racially tolerant places I've ever lived (and I've lived alot of places so don't construe that as sarcasm). We only had one minor incident. The day after 9-11 a nasty rumor began circulating that the employees of a local Moslem owned business were celebrating and making threatening comments. The next day, a whole fleet of pickup trucks with gun racks and flying American flags surrounded all the franchises in town. You see, word had got out that the email was a lie and the locals weren't about to have any hate crimes or misunderstandings happening in thier town, so they'd organized a campaign to protect the shops from vandalism. I gather they did alot of business that day because people wanted to show thier support for thier neighbors. Perhaps if you let me know where 'around here' is I could tell you whether what you are talking about is wide spread in 'other parts'. This is the first I've heard of it. I've got a close Egyptian friend and as far as I know he's never been made to feel uncomfortable at any point.

"Around here" is North Texas ... sorry for not being specific. The day after 9/11 we had quite a few reports in regard to actions against Mosques in Dallas and the surrounding cities. One in Denton has been fire bombed twice since, and took a few more rounds just the other day. There's one in Richardson that got hit fairly hard after some of it's members were hooked up by the FBI for money laundering in relation to terrorist troops. I can think of at least ten incidents since 9/11, that's not taking into account all the vandalism reports of graffiti etc. I was mainly just curious if there were attacks across the country, or if we really are a bunch of gun totin' cowboys around here ... not that gun totin' cowboy is a bad thing of course!

Why can't you muslims get modern ? Have you ever seen Allah, has a christ ever seen good, has a jew ever seen jehova? No!; science tells us how a lot of things work and there are a lot of unanswered questions, but one thing is clear good/allah/jehova/whatever don't give a about us (if it exists)! Religion is of help to people who have problems or are about to die, but what else ? It is worth fighting for ? Certainly not! If Good or whatever it is called exists it can defend himself and will do what it wants and its is conceited to think it can't do that for itself.

there's some truth to your argument, Landser. But down at the bottom of your post, you forgot to mention just how much money a lot of those religious leaders bilk out of their followers. I was "asked to leave" a so-called christian church when I asked why God needed hard currency (the same kind of hard currency the preacher man used to buy his half-million dollar home and his Lincoln.) Maybe I'm in the wrong line of work...

Agree with Landser and doggtag. Islam is not a modern relegion , Islam is a young religion. Can you show me one muslim country with a modern democracy, a high level of science or a strong economy ? Religion are just something invented by men in order to rules the other or to make money. I have nothing against religion if they can help some guy to live. But alas, religions are responsive for almost of the war on our earth. And the problem is to "believe" in place to know. I can believe exactly what I want but this doesn't mean I am right.Chris are right, Jew are right, Muslims are right, and the other too... Yes sure, it is more difficult to learn to know than to believe. And what stupid vanity to think I am important enougth for a supposed God ruling the universe. Concentrate your efforts to understand the univers and let the other poor guys think the woman lapidation is in the will of god...

One of the good things about us American is that every time we have had a "social" problem we created a law to deal with that. We got more laws than any of us could imagine. We still pay sibsidies to sheep growers under a WW1 act that protects "wool" as a "national security" matter, to mention one. The problem, whether good or bad, is that we American have come to appreciate "tollerance" for diversity under the gun. In the 60's we had our great "social revolution." What did we do? We threw the Civil Rights Act at it. Now, most of the unmentioned members of the American population in the act may, in many ways report "reverse" discrimination. But, hey, that fair too, we have done it for much longer time. Going back to the posted messages after my last. . .Religian has, is and "always" will be a political tool. Look to the first "self elected" Pope. His real thoughts were: "Look at this christians . .. these people are willing to be eaten alive by lions rather that swear allegiance to me the Roman Emperor . . . if, I could just place myself to the closest post between the people and this GOD, I not only will be able to get the needed capital (thru taxation) but an incredibly large army . .not to mention the geopolitical power, et voila` we got ourself a POPE." History can tell us whether that was good or bad. Where we are today, in temrs of social behavior, should the indicator par excellance. One of the beautiful things about Islam, is that I discovered how rigid the genealogical "totem pole" is to the Prophets. Everyone ever since claims his roots to the second most important prophet Ibrahim or Abraham from whom the three children ended up in leading the mayor religious branches. I assure you that there is power to the ability of claiming "I am a direct discendent of THE Joseph, or THE Ishmil or . .. (more modern) THE George Whashington - -the father of our Country." You can see where I am going with this. Islam, is telling us . . .whatch out, there is peril in such a behavior. And, justly, if you can TRULY believe, in your hart and mind and can tell with a straight face, that God/Allah has a son . . . I mean a real, physical son after an "interaction" with an hearthly being . . . that you are on your own little planet and need to stay there. Islam tells that ALL these people were no more than Messengers . . .people that hed been blessed with certain visionary powers and reported the word of God/Allah. . . . what did we do? we willed them ALL. Why, out of fear of "disruption" . . .the usual "if it ain't broke. . .don't fix it" approach we American are accustom to. This is not a NEW peoposition in history or time. Spencerian thought, after all finally put to rest the "struggle of the fittest" theory. The bigger (more powerful) fish eat the smaller one so that it can survive and have the chance to procreate and increase inmumbers. What Islam is saying is that you must tollerate. And that is seen in the word of the Quran. The problem, however, is always that creazy radical, like Nero (have another BBQ in Rome guy), Hattila (the Mongol Guy), Roberspierre (guillotine man), the MANY, INNUMERABLE POPES who between the year 600 and 1500 inesorably extinguished Millions in their terror chanbers (normally in the house of GOD), Martin Luther, Mussolini, Hitler, Francisco Franco, El Che, Lenin, Chairman Mao, Bin Laden and the list could go on for ever . . . some struggles, in terms of socio-political periond in which it occurred, could have a "justification of sort; the last mentioned, very little excuse there - - and we, Muslim everywhere in the world, do concurr and are behind the rest of the world and America in the fight against terror. But, the deliberate, undiscretionary and political controversial power to wage war should be looked at more closely to justify our actions. The O.B.L crowd was not in Iraq was in Afghanistan. . . .which reminds me . . .in the 80's the US was actually supporting Ossama in his fight with the taliban to free Afghanistan from the Russian invasion. With the promise of miloitary and economic support which never came after the war ended. A small group of people in the north instead sided with the Russians. After the war ended with Russia, with the victory of the Taliban O.B.L. crew, the support originally promised never came to rebuilt the country. They fell into redicalism by necessity, needed money and got O.B.L. . . .Now, after the invasion of Afghanistan we have the northen from of liberalization that we support and bit on Taliban . . .in phrase, we Americans tend to talk with both sides of our mounths. But that is quite alright . . . in such a world you must.

As I was saying . . . . .