>>Paging 1400 years ago. Have you been using your "rumoured" time device while drunk?<< Nope. Just searching the Middle East for a guy named Muhammad that's been terrorizing Meccan caravans. ;-)

>>Think about it. Maybe you will come to understand why Muslims do not like Saddam, or the regimes that didn't do anything about him? I heard an Egyptian academic, speaking at a conference in Iraq, say "It took the USA to liberate Iraq. Arab governments not only didn't do it, they wouldn't do it. We should be ashamed. We should work for governments that serve Arab peoples better." If you bother to listen, you might even like some of what you hear<< So issue said academic a rifle and kick his ass to the front. Oh, wait, that would mean DOING something.

I see Sid is still trying to make the claim that Muslims have little or no responsibility for support of the current spate of Islamic terrorism in the world. Well, in rebuttal to your single Egyptian cleric statement, how about a few quotes that show the -other- side of this story: (These are from the Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism site, in case you want to check...along with complete references for all of these quotes...) Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who was quoted in the Egyptian paper Al-Ahram weeks after the attack: "I find it hard to believe that people who were learning to fly in Florida could, within a year and a half, fly large commercial airlines and hit with accuracy the towers of the World Trade Center which would appear, to the pilot from the air, the size of a pencil. Only a professional pilot could carry out this mission." A year following the attacks, Saudi Arabia's powerful Interior Minister Prince Nayef more explicitly blamed "the Zionists." In Egypt, Former Dean of Humanities at 'Ein Shams University, Mustafa Shak'a, was interviewed by Iqra TV on June 16, 2004. Shak'a attributed the September 11 attacks to the U.S. and the Jews: "To this day, we don't know who attacked the U.S. on September 11. Why is the attack attributed to bin Laden although it has not been proven that he was involved in the operation? It is way above his capabilities. Those who created him have made him a legend. The operation was 100% American, and this is not the place to elaborate, but what proves the operation was a Jewish one is that five Jews climbed up a high building and filmed the first attack of the first plane..." Another Egyptian professor, Galal Amin of the American University, wrote an article for Al-Ahram in April 2004: "The claim that the Greater Middle East Initiative aims, wholly or partly, to eliminate terror of the type seen on September 11, 2001 is unconvincing, for several reasons. One is that there is still doubt that the September attacks were the outcome of Arab and Islamic terror. No conclusive proof to this effect is yet available. Many writers, American and European, as well as Arab, suspect that the attacks were carried out by Americans, or with American assistance, or that Americans knew about them and kept silent. Such doubts are strong and rest on damning evidence, but the U.S. administration forcefully censors them and bans any discussion of the matter - something that, by the way, makes one suspect the U.S. administration's commitment to 'knowledge.' But enough of that." In an article in the Egyptian government daily Al-Gumhouriyya titled 'The Secret Israeli Weapon,' published on April 23, 2004, deputy editor Abd Al-Wahhab 'Adas accused the Jews of perpetrating all terrorism throughout the world, including the September 11 attacks. On August 9, 2004 Galal Dweidar, editor of the Al-Akhbar Egyptian government daily, wrote an article titled 'Barbarian Imperialist Occupation,' questioning who was really behind the attacks: "...There are strong doubts on the identity of those who schemed the terrorist action that targeted the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York..." In Egypt this past year one of the most popular songs says that the U.S. was behind September 11. "[Popular] singer Sha'ban Abd Al-Rahim is making headlines again with his announcement that he has put the final touches on his latest album Mahibish Al Karasi (I Don't Like the Chairs) - possibly referring to political positions as opposed to furniture. The new album includes a new ditty about the U.S., Israel, and the road map. 'Kharittat Al Tariq' (Road Map) is the name of the song which gives voice to widespread views in the Egyptian street regarding the September 11th events and the U.S.-Iraq standoff... Abd Al-Rahim ... boldly sing[s] that the U.S.A. is the perpetrator of the September 11th attacks. 'Hey people it was only a tower and I swear by God that they are the ones who pulled it down.' Abd Al-Rahim further sings that they purposely did it to make people think that Arabs and Muslims are terrorists and were behind that disaster. Now the U.S. can do what it pleases to the Arab world since everyone thinks they are to blame." Saudi Cleric Dr. Sa'd bin 'Abdallah Al-Breik spoke about Al-Qa'ida's role on Saudi Arabia's Channel 1 on August 16, 2004: "We must not inflate [the importance] of Al-Qa'ida, to the point of claiming that it is the main and only perpetrator of this large operation [September 11]. I'm not here to defend [Al-Qa'ida], but we must not overstate this matter... It is a mistake to ignore the possibility that the Zionist hands used some people who were planted into one of the stages of this plan, from this issue. I have read some books that were translated from English into Arabic in which the Americans themselves call 9/11 'The Great Deception' or the 'The Great Game,' so why do we use all sort of names to avoid this subject. No, we must be clear and not censor

Unfortunately it is a trait of Islam. Not saying every sect of Islam is evil, and every Imam is a murderer, but Islam is not a peaceful religion. Every Islam goes, there is destruction. Islam teaches 3 things. 1. Infidels can be murdered 2. Infidels can be turned into slaves 3. Infidels can be converted. I am sick of this whining by Muslims about how we are disrespecting their Faith. Who cares, they disrespect Christianity every week. I am more concerned about National security than respecting Islam

"And none of that voids or invalidates my respect for Islam." As long as one makes that clear, then having an emotionally cleansing rant about the evils of the world ain't all bad.

"Islam teaches 3 things." It depends on the teacher what Islam teaches. One could say much the same about any religion, including Christianity. For instance, one basic teaching among some Muslims is: 1. There is no God but God and Muhammed is His Prophet, 2. The Three Reevealed Religions are Judaism, the Root, Christianity, the Branches and Islam, the Flower. 3. All men are Brothers. Everything else beyond those three things are to be considered like window dressing. Interesting, but not important.

""And none of that voids or invalidates my respect for Islam." As long as one makes that clear, then having an emotionally cleansing rant about the evils of the world ain't all bad. " -- Rbrooku ---- And regardless of whether one makes that clear, actually doing what I said and killing every raghead Islamist terrorist and every Imam that preaches encouragement to them to kill Americans--including by dropping the walls of the mosque he's hiding in down on top of his head using a couple GBU-33s--is downright good. Displacedjim

It is an ironic theory - similar to those who theorize ElCid is on the left - or that he is Muslim. ElCid is occasionally active in Republican politics, but often farther to the right, and a charter member (founding member) of the Libertarian party in three states. On the soft theory, ElCid is regularly accused of being a "bull in the China shop" (both in its regular sense and because he writes a lot about China) and "undiplomatic" and "too prone to take decisive action." This is the first time the "too soft" theory has been advanced. It is as wide of the mark as the theory all Islam is tolerant of terrorism. Apparently a great many Muslims are offended at the notion. Which is good news for anyone willing to hear it.

As usual, you are unreasonable. An academic attending a formal academic conference and saying things which few dare to say IS doing something - and something much more effective than ever that same person could achieve with a rifle. But you do not seem to know that the pen is mightier than the sword, or that ideas really do matter. I recommend you obtain and study some USMC training materials. When teaching military police schools, they say "your first, second, and fifteenth line of defense is what you say." Only in the movies can a pair of walking patrolmen go into the worst places looking for trouble and then resolve it with kung fu. Real military police use psychology. It is exactly appropriate for an academic to say what you yourself have posted ought to be said. A reasonable person would not then belittle his having said it.

I said nothing about a "single Egyptian cleric." I did describe an international conference of Islamic and Christian clerics, which must be on the very heavy end of plural. Or did you confuse that with my mention of a single Egyptian ACADEMIC? I remember some weeks back you were all for Muslims speaking out against various kinds of bad regimes in the Arab world. Why exactly are you so upset to learn it is happening? Something is wrong with the way your mind is processing this information. Did you mean what you said (then) or not?