I apologize. I misread the header. I thought the topic was, "Americans Must *IN*spect Islam", a sentiment with which I heartily agree. We won't like what we find, though.....

Would someone please explain why? What is there to respect about a religion that tolerates no other religion? What is there to respect about a religion that recognizes slavery? What is there to respect about a religion that affords women the same legal protection it does a dog, or a sofa? What is there to respect about a religion that believes freedom of religion is you must show up at the mosque, or respect your beliefs in secret? What is there to respect about a billion+ people who refuse to, or are afraid to, speak out against the terrorists that subjugate them? Machiavelli professed that people got the government they deserved: often interpreted to mean if citizens did not rise against injustice, they had no cause for complaint. I suggest that until islam produces a “Prince” of similar caliber, it commands no respect.

Islam had better start respecting Americans then. http://www.geocities.com/fallenempire2000/lastword/middleeast.html

FE2K: Nice site. Great rant. Minor disagreements, but overall...uh-huh. Mind if I spam it elsewhere? SOMETHING TO SAY, CL.

Ther are differance between a religion and culture. Most of the Turks are Muslim and let's look at Turkey. "Would someone please explain why?" "What is there to respect about a religion that tolerates no other religion?" In Turkey every religion is tolerated and that was so in the entire history of Seljuk Khanete, Ottoman Empire and Turkey. "What is there to respect about a religion that recognizes slavery?" Christianity recognisez slavery also. In Turkey there is no slave since 19th century. In fact slavery in Turkey ended before than USA. "What is there to respect about a religion that affords women the same legal protection it does a dog, or a sofa?" From the pre-Islam ancient times Turkish women had always undisputed legal or tribal rights. again this is not about religion but culture. "What is there to respect about a religion that believes freedom of religion is you must show up at the mosque, or respect your beliefs in secret?" In every Turkish Nation of history everybody had rights to believe what he wants, and in his choosing of temples. That was also true for Christian, Judaist or Shaman Turkish Nations. At the initial Ottoman period about half of the army was Christian. Most of the mothers of ottoman rulers were Christians who never converted from their religion. "What is there to respect about a billion+ people who refuse to, or are afraid to, speak out against the terrorists that subjugate them?" Turkey always condemned terrorism and always on the front-line against terrorism. "Machiavelli professed that people got the government they deserved: often interpreted to mean if citizens did not rise against injustice, they had no cause for complaint. " Turkey is a secular democracy. "I suggest that until Islam produces a “Prince” of similar caliber, it commands no respect." Turkey never ruled by fundementalist never had Nazis. In that sense I believe Turkey is much bigger caliber than Prince. Your cheavuenism and lack of knowledge disturbs me.

Ilpars: You should know that you've earned my respect. But, you have just listed alot of reasons why Americans should respect Turkey, but not alot of reasons why Americans should respect Islam. Personally, I think Americans do respect Turkey, or at least, those Americans familiar with Turkey and the Turks respect the nation. But, by your own statements, the reason for respecting Turkey have to do with the culture of Turkey, not the religion. As I said near the beginning of the thread, Americans do respect Islam. Many areas of Michigan are now populated by Moslems, and there are smaller numbers of Moslems peaceably living in almost all areas of the nation. We are not passing laws banning tradiational dress. But we don't do these things because we respect Islam particularly, but because we would consider it shameful and dishonorable not to show respect to any group or religion. If particular nationalities have been singled out for scrutiny lately, it has nothing to do with disrespecting thier religion or nationality, and everything to do with the vocal minority/majority in that nation advocating war against our people (of all races and religions). But I think it is a legitimate question as to 'why' we must give any special respect to Islam. You have just said why we should respect Turkey. Many other reasons for respecting Turkey would come to the mind of any educated American. They are a strong ally, and stood beside during our long conflict with Russia. They have produced many great atheletes and artists. They do not as a people abuse and show gross disrespect our culture. And they also make the finest yogurt on the planet. Mmmmm turkish yogurt. There are many reasons that occur to me why I should respect Turkey, but while I don't advocate acting disrespectful to Islam, there are few reasons I can think of why I should respect Islam. That someone from Turkey has asked, for the sake of Turkey that I do so is about the best reason I can think of, but given the virtual state of war that exists between the US and large portions of the Islamic world its probably not going to be a sufficient answer for all Americans.

I believe America must respect Islam. Why? Because you are fighting against fundementalism. In this war, you need the support of modernists. If you do not respect their belief how can you have their support. Even more if modernists started to believe this war is a new modern Crusades in which thousands of Muslims killed only because of their religions; they will start to support the enemy. Because Turkey is an example of how Muslim Countries could be. But if you do not respect Islam, you will undermine our effort, our example. Because if you respect me, you have to respect what I believe in. What I believe is part of who I am. Why modernists do not support US yet? Because they are unsure of US intentions. Even France and Russia is unsure about US intentions. If modernists believe that you are only there to help Iraq people than they will support US. Please remember the time of GW1. In that war other than Iran and a few more radical countries entire Islam world had supported US. Why? Because everybody knew what your intentions were. In this war. USA failed to prove his claims without any doubt (Nuclear weapons and Al-Queda connection). USA did not have a UN decision. You should have given what France and Russia wanted. USA did not obtain support of any local countries support. Especially for the reconstruction of Iraq. In this Turkey do not count as we are not "one of them". In a given time USA could have achieved all of these. Then USA would have entered Iraq with the support of a huge confederation, and the support of modernists.

>>Why modernists do not support US yet? Because they are unsure of US intentions. Even France and Russia is unsure about US intentions. If modernists believe that you are only there to help Iraq people than they will support US. Please remember the time of GW1. In that war other than Iran and a few more radical countries entire Islam world had supported US. Why? Because everybody knew what your intentions were.<< So, if we destroy a Grozny-sized Islamic city, like the Russians, or colonize Iraq like France did Algeria and begin teaching Iraqi children to speak English and about how their "forefathers" George Washington and Thomas Jefferson founded their country, would our intentions be clear? Maybe a nice repeat of the Battle of Algiers? Muslims need to begin worrying about something more close to home. That is - if Americans kill me, who's going to care?

Good examples AK as both France at Algiers and Russians at Grozny failed in their wars. USA must not repeat their mistakes to win the war. And I must add that even USA has his limits waging war. How many war USA can wage simultenously?

From the latest exchanges I can see that we are getting into a more meaningful discussion. However, still I see that ignorance (not knowing fully about something) pervades. I will, therefore, try to give you more information about Islam, who are and where these people live and the problem we sometime create ourselves to justify our own actions. Islam, literally means "to prostrate or to submit" to something. In this case, the meaning is construed to be "submit" to the will of God (Allah). Islam, contrary to Jewdeism which traces its beginning to 4000BC and Christianity to 30AD or so, is a modern religion; written in a modern langeage, Arabic, while the other two were written in Aribic, Aramaic, Ebrew, Assyrian, Sumarian and Greek. Eventually, around the year 400AD canonization of the Bible begun and lasted about 400 years. During this time, the western world was trying to figure out which was said by whom at what time and in what circumstances. Eventually, around the 1400 the first Bible was produced (Guthenberg Bible) this was originally in German than translated into Latin. Only the nobility and those who had studied could read and write latin. Just about the same time, Some King in England decided that he wanted to divorce his wife and marry some othe gal, but could not do it because he needed the Roman Chatolic Pope to annul the matrimony. He eventually, separated himself from the Chatolic Church and started his ouw growp: The Church of England, rewrote "his" bible and it called it the King's Version; which was and still is predominantly protestant in content. The Quran, on the other hand was handed down just around the year 450-465 and eventually written down by scribes, as the Messenger could not read or write. That language in which it had been written back than, is the same language spoken by most (alas, I am not one) in the Islamic world. The problem with such a book is that it becomes very rigid, it does not allow the same "massaging" that has occurred with the rest of the books. So, when we today read the Quran it is difficult to interpret. In fact, today, you can buy a "transliterated" version of the Quran. This is the "literal translation" of the words without paraphares, embellishments or adjustments for idiomatic, cultural or language use. It therefore become quite strict in its meaning and application. I have had the fortune of reading the Chatolic Bible, which has several books or passages more than the King James version, the Jewish Old Testanent, the Christian New Testament, the Apocripha (those books which were discarded during the Canonization process as "questionable," The Hindu Book of revelations, if you will, and the Quran. And I can tell you, that if you just read the Quran for what is worth, many of the misunderstanding and cultural differences mentioned in the many "why" response would be just history and perhaps a new beginnig. ALL keep on saying Islam but, I am sure very few know "how pervasive" Islam really is. So, here is a geography lesson. This are countries predominantly "MUSLIM" areound the world, in no specific order, and you may want to double check it . . . . Mozambique Niger Nigeria Mauritius Senegal Tunisia Usbekistan Western Sahara Yemen Turkemenistan Tajikistan Tanzania Russia (a few) Sierra Leon Suriname Qatar Mynmar Mongolia Kenya India Ghana Georgia (not US) Central African Republic Burundi Iraq Iran Pakistan Kashmir Malysia Morocco Lybia Algeria Egypt Sudan Somalia Mauritania Turkey Arzebajian Barhain Benin Croatia (do you remember the "ethnic cleansing" Dibouti Indonesia Jordan Palestine Lebanon Syria Saudi Arabia Oman UAE Kazakistan Kuwait Kyrgyzstan Malawi Mali In all there are more than 700,000,000 MUSLIM around the world. Not to mention the Muslim we have at home (US) and I count myself in too. We, are fighting less that 50,000 and think ALL MUSLIM ARE LIKE THEM. We have so many extremist group right here in the US that put to shame the islamic groups but we are all out to make an "example" of the muslim. Every were in the modern world, terrorism exists and is considered a "daily" event. I know because I grew up into an Anarchist group in Rome Italy . . .part of the old Manifesto. . . That doesn make me or any other muslim part of the "group" we are out to get. In many ways, we ALL know the reason why we invaded Iraq and why we continue our efforts (remember .. . I am in Iraq, as we speak Camp Victory North (just 15 minute from downtown Baghdad), so unless you get your little butts out here and feel what is like do not give me the suckup names I have seen posted. So, in reality, we think, by the action of less than 1% of the entire world muslim population (the few who perpetrated the 9/11 horror) that ALL are redical extremists that need to be kept under lock and key. That is in all respects absurd. As I mentioned before, ignorance can be,