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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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elcid    That's elcid padding his resume of bs   9/4/2004 1:37:58 PM
Maybe. Maybe not. You are making an assumption. I get the impression perhaps you don't like to think someone who says things you disagree with might actually know what they are talking about. But they might.
 
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elcid    It is impossible to proove a negative   9/4/2004 1:40:49 PM
It is a logical fallacy. Someone who "knows" there is no God - or that all believers are always wrong - is in fact not being logical - by the standards of secular logic and philosophy.
 
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elcid    There are other documents   9/4/2004 1:50:12 PM
There are a variety of other materials. For one thing, even what is officially recognized as holy writ varies with your denomination. The best example of this is the Apocrapha. [But even what is part of it is controversial: the same University of Oxford which gave us the King James Version records, in its latest edition, that most of the Apocrapha was part of KJV, but some shortened versions were originally published to be cheaper, kind of like paperbacks of our day. They have put them back in the latest "Authorized" versions (KJV was authorized by King James, the current one by Queen Elizabeth) - but added some books that Orthodox tradition long recognized - and similar material.] But this is just the most obvious and non-controversial. There is a great deal of other material, including the Gospel of Thomas, under the classification of Gnostic materials, and from the massive Qumron site. There is also some secular Roman history, and a few other things from other Biblical era civilizations. Even identifying this material, much less comprehending it, takes a vast effort.
 
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elcid    nuke-tipped Harpoons    9/4/2004 1:57:39 PM
This is barely feasible. A nuclear weapon can be fitted into a six inch shell, so it need not be very large. And no one suggests there are many technical limitations on Israeli institutions. But Harpoon has a very limited payload. A nuclear weapon stored on a submarine in close proxcimity to a human crew needs to have a good deal of shielding - lest it turn the missile, and everything nearby it, radioactive to an undesirable degree. A practical weapon for such an application probably is too heavy for Harpoon. But surely Israel could build a cruise missile to any payload specification it had a requirement for.
 
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elcid    Things were desperate in 1948   9/4/2004 2:06:50 PM
Some refugees were bussed directly from ships to the battlefield. Orders were given in something like eight languages. Anything that could shoot was pressed into service. It was not until later that things got enough better for hubris to show up about what was politically correct enough to buy. By the 1960s it had become part of the system. It was a form of unreasonable nationalism similar to some expressed on this board. I saw no more reason to honor it than I do those who think discrediting official US policy - that we ought to respect Islam - is the only way to go. I side with our President.
 
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elcid    authoritarianism is its own religion   9/4/2004 2:11:18 PM
Perhaps it is. But if so there are many denominations. One of them seems to be We Must Hate Islam. Anyone who says otherwise is apostate. I wonder why no one ever replies to the fact it is our own national policy we are not at war with Islam? Since every other idea seems open to ridicule, why not that one too?
 
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elcid    RE:Thanks Scholar/Jihad REALPOLITIK   9/4/2004 2:34:31 PM
I regard the doctrine that jihad is a spiritual battle as mainstream Islam. Certainly it is in terms of the Islam one encounters in US and Canadian mosques (which, due to geography, is the kind easiest for me to visit). It reminds me a great deal of Jesus repeated distiction between issues of the spirit as distinct from issues of "this world" - including politial ones. Islam (like Christianity) has had periods of temporal power, but it survives as a significant entity (like Christianity) because of its ideas, not because of warriors. The Cold War gives me much reason to hope. I never dared hope to see the end of the Cold War, or of Communism as a system of politics. But I lived to see both. I believe radical Islam is at least as doomed as Soviet Communism was.
 
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elcid    See Cast a Giant Shadow   9/4/2004 2:44:36 PM
The book is better than the movie, but the movie is not bad. One of the more famous incidents involved former US Army Col. Micky Marcus leading an action against Egyptian armor - with Anti-aircraft guns mounted on trucks or halftracks - in a force otherwise basically armed with jeeps and machine guns. Not long after this incident, Marcus was made brigadier, the first general in the army of Israel in modern times. An unusual man, he had once put down a prison riot in New York City, and he was one of the very first soldiers to parachute into Normandy (completely improperly, since he was in the occupation government, nominally). Anyone not willing to believe far out stories better not study his role in history.
 
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elcid    RE:Muhammad and Jesus   9/4/2004 2:52:13 PM
I do not see how one can doubt an intellectual link between the Jewish prophets, and Jesus, whom Muhammad regarded as the greatest of Jewish prophets. Back when I was given a crash course in Arabic (and Hebrew, which are closely related, and share the same writing system) I was told that the Quran was written by Muhammad and his brother. Some people today say that is not generally accepted. But if it is correct, it implies that Muhammad was very impressed with the core ideas of Juadism, and also with the writing style of the Jewish and Christian Holy Scriptures. Because the ideas and the style of the Quran seem very similar. If there was no connection, one would expect completely different ideas, and style of presentation.
 
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elcid    People are not stupid   9/4/2004 3:00:39 PM
The ideas of freedom are not difficult to grasp - or sell - or teach. The US has considerable experience in spreading them. [Go to the Philippines, to Puerto Rico, to Italy, or Germany, or Japan, for some 20th century cases where US occupation governments generated viable politial institutions]. I am unsure why Scholar thinks the whole concept is nonsense? While Afghanistan is indeed what he says it is, and not a nation in the modern sense at all, there is no reason to think it cannot become one. To the extent there are problems with US policy in this regard, they involve not mobilizing most of the hundred battalions of occupation government units, nor most of the military police units, part of our system. We should have at least two MP brigades in Iraq (instead of zero), and all the occupation government battalions should be active. The problem is not teaching people how to make institutions work. It is how to give them reasonable security in the presence of thugs and radicals. [I went to school with a communist, terrorist group called the Students for a Democratic Society - or SDS - shutting down campus and blowing up buildings. It is not easy to deal with even in this country. And while these people had Russian money delivered by Cuban agents, they were entirely Americans, and almost entirely white Americans. We should be thankful that we have not had more problems of this sort.]
 
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