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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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ilpars    RE:Reality check! - applecidarus   6/29/2004 3:14:39 AM
Applecidarus, I do not know where do you get your knowledge about Islam but it is highly wrong. In Quran, there is not a single word about religional classes. More than that in theory there should be no religious class in Islam. But in the history some group of people declared that they have a right to speak for the God. And they found fools to follow them. Like the Christian religious classes before them they act against the soul of their religion and grasped the right of decision from their followers. The birth of Protestant and reformation teached the Christian religion class to draw a line in their corruption. The problem in Muslim countries is other than certain countries (such as Turkey), there was not a serious movement against the power corrupt religional class. One day they will lose it and the world will become much nicer place. Yes mullahs, clerics whatever you call them, have corrupt members in them. Many of them are failing to condemn terrorism. But even so, only a few of them supports terrorism. But you only hear from the ones that supports as your media informs you about only them. The media do not give reports about the mant clerics who condemns terrorism because it is not an interesting news. Turkey is already "out of step" in its zeal against fighting all sorts of terrorism. If you think otherwise, you must follow the world better. When a cleric preaches terrorism, violence, death in my eyes and In Turkish laws he is a criminal and must be sent to prison. Turkey is mostly muslim and not singular. Turkey is an example which shows your generalizations are wrong. Therefore you do not like my examples. You are prejudging. And your prejudges are not naive misunderstandings. Your biased against Islam.
 
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ilpars    RE:Reality check! - applecidarus   6/29/2004 3:14:40 AM
Applecidarus, I do not know where do you get your knowledge about Islam but it is highly wrong. In Quran, there is not a single word about religional classes. More than that in theory there should be no religious class in Islam. But in the history some group of people declared that they have a right to speak for the God. And they found fools to follow them. Like the Christian religious classes before them they act against the soul of their religion and grasped the right of decision from their followers. The birth of Protestant and reformation teached the Christian religion class to draw a line in their corruption. The problem in Muslim countries is other than certain countries (such as Turkey), there was not a serious movement against the power corrupt religional class. One day they will lose it and the world will become much nicer place. Yes mullahs, clerics whatever you call them, have corrupt members in them. Many of them are failing to condemn terrorism. But even so, only a few of them supports terrorism. But you only hear from the ones that supports as your media informs you about only them. The media do not give reports about the mant clerics who condemns terrorism because it is not an interesting news. Turkey is already "out of step" in its zeal against fighting all sorts of terrorism. If you think otherwise, you must follow the world better. When a cleric preaches terrorism, violence, death in my eyes and In Turkish laws he is a criminal and must be sent to prison. Turkey is mostly muslim and not singular. Turkey is an example which shows your generalizations are wrong. Therefore you do not like my examples. You are prejudging. And your prejudges are not naive misunderstandings. Your biased against Islam.
 
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ilpars    RE:Americans must respect Islam - when hell freezes over    6/29/2004 3:48:05 AM
"Muslims and their enablers( financiers, Imans-mullahs, handlers, etc etc etc) in mainstream Islam are responsible for 9-11 " If OnWatch had examined the 9-11 more clearly, he would have seen that the responsibles are either radical Fundementals or the ex-enemies of USA (If Saddam's involvement is true). ------------------------------------- "It is exactly that Islamist poison which pollutes mainstream Islam. To say that Islam is pure while it's proponents murder innocents in it's name, and Islam's leaders condone the murder is vaccuous at best!" Islam is pure. The ones who kills for Islam are criminals and fools. God is omnipotent; therefore need not need anybody to kill for Him. ------------------------------------- "Islamist terrorism is underpinned by religion and it is within the mainstream of Islam that overt and covert support for the Jihadi's thrives. And that is probably why secularity (separation of church & state) and Western alignment was the path chosen by the Turk Generals." Islamist terrorists are using religion for trying to legalize their actions like Crusaders were trying to legalize theirs in the past. Secularity is another issue. Secukarism is needed to destroy the power of religious caste. And it is Turkish people not just generals. As you can see Turkish army is a part of Turkish people not a different entity. ---------------------------------- "Gee I thought the muslim "Assassins" of Arabia, Iran, Syria, and the Phillipines predated the communists - is it any wonder I can't take you seriously Illpart? Beyond the Islamic predisposition to murder and terrorize the Infidel -- yes the Socialists/Commies did and still do provide tactical support, weaponry and propaganda for the IslamoFascists. Some things never change..." Assasins of Alamut were destroyed by mongols and their traditions have been forgotten. Islamic terrorists are following the footsteps of the Communist ones. ------------------------------------ Do you know what is the problem in US Middle-East relations? US army staying in Middle-East after GW1. Many people not all Arabs see it as an American attempt to control the oilfields. Anti-American fear and hatred in Arabs gained much power because of this. It is important in the future that these people to see American soldiers are not in Middle-East to stay.
 
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ilpars    RE:Reality check! - NewGuy   6/29/2004 3:50:22 AM
Well they are not a few. If you accept my theory that only 1% of the muslims are radical Fundementalists who are fighting and supporting ant-American fight, they are still 1,5 million.
 
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ilpars    RE:Americans must respect Islam - Vapid   6/29/2004 3:51:41 AM
"The problem is Islamist don't respect Islam." That is exactly my point. radical fundementalists are not respecting Islam and Islam's ideals.
 
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Thomas    RE:Reality check! - applecidarus   6/29/2004 4:07:19 AM
Applecidarus: You are stepping right into the trap of the fundamentalists. The very same trap the communists used say 15 years ago: "USA is persecuting socialism, thus we are defending ourselves by attacking the western world". The fundamentalists are making the same bogus claim, which make redblooded americans - like yourself - blow a gasket: "If you want trouble, You've come to right place!!!" I will NOT play by the fundamentalists rules. The claim, that you can't have a secular muslim state, is a subject you should discuss with the Turkish Jandarma. What is true in Your contentions, is that the muslims need a reformation like the christian (which eventually benefitted the catholic church as well), for the simple reason that eternal and immutable laws are not a very practical way to rule a society - just think of the number of amendments to the US constitution - one of the better written constitutios.
 
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NewGuy    RE:Reality check! - NewGuy   6/29/2004 9:14:26 AM
Well they are not a few. If you accept my theory that only 1% of the muslims are radical Fundementalists who are fighting and supporting ant-American fight, they are still 1,5 million . You obviously missed my point. *Far* more than 1.5 million 'muslims' are using their religion in what I certainly consider either in an abusive fashion, or are actively or passively supporting terror/murder/repression of women/etc by their following certain edicts-teachings or their silence. There are hundreds of reports each year from more than half of all nations with a Mmuslim majority, or significant minority, that show serious issues within those communities in regards to the items I mention above. You cannot name any other religion/culture that currently displays these same issues on such a wide scale on a world-wide basis. This makes it rather obvious to me that it is far from just 1% of Muslims being part of the problem: When the majority of Muslims worldwide, not just in Turkey or the US, speak out and *act* against the fundamentalists, turn a deaf ear to the Mullahs who preach their hate and throw them out of their positions of authority, then I will agree with you that it is just a tiny fraction of Muslims that contribute to the problem. NewGuy
 
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jastayme3    RE:Americans must respect Islam   6/29/2004 12:18:39 PM
Of course Americans must respect Islam: 1. It's polite. It is in general best to get along with those you can, when you can. 2. It's expedient. Making a conscience decision for a rational purpose is one thing. Insulting people from ignorance or arrogance is another. In the first you determine that the consequense must be accepted, in the second you are merely sloppy How far does this "respect" go? On the one extreme there is arogance, on the other is groveling. Somewhere in between
 
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On Watch    Bin Laden & the French couldn't have said it better ilpars   6/29/2004 3:09:47 PM
>>Do you know what is the problem in US Middle-East relations? US army staying in Middle-East after GW1. Many people not all Arabs see it as an American attempt to control the oilfields. Anti-American fear and hatred in Arabs gained much power because of this. It is important in the future that these people to see American soldiers are not in Middle-East to stay.--Ilpard<< Of Course what really upset the Turks the most was that the USA stayed-on and protected the Kurds! Yes, and the French & Russians would still LOVE to achieve Baathist guaranteed unfettered access to Iraqi markets, & oil revenues -- just as Bin Laden LUSTss for control of Iraqi hearts & minds -- if only the USA would just get out of the way, the world would be such a lovely place... >>Islam is pure. The ones who kills for Islam are criminals and fools. God is omnipotent; therefore need not need anybody to kill for Him. --ilpar<< Mainstream Islam is like a tubfull of dirty bathwater after the 10th bandit pees in it! The Islamic Management needs to change the water in order to prevent serious infections to it's oh so devout clientele. As for Islam's historical prediliction for "assassins", you better check for "spinoffs" before I have to adjust your revisionist history book AGAIN! On Watch
 
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ilpars    It is better for Turkey if US stays in Iraq   6/29/2004 4:49:11 PM
Why should Turks be upset about USA staying in Middle-East. For the interests of Turkey it is better that US stays. 1. As long as US stays, it is American's job to control the exterminist Kurds in Iraq not ours. 2. As long as US stays, all of Syria and Iran's attention is directed to America. Indeed they were not so understanding against Turkey for a long time. 3. Turkey's relations have improved with EU improved greatly. If US stays a few years more, we will surely be in EU. 4. There are many working oppurtunities in Iraq as long as Americans stay. American soldiers are great buyers. Whereever they go Economy becomes more active.
 
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