>>OnWatch: 1. He has nothing reasonable to say.--ilpar<< Sorry to shake your pillars of faith ilpars, but your '3 monkey' aversion to the "perversion that pevades mainstream Islam" cannot withstand the smell of muslim EXPLOSIVES and spilt innocent blood. >>2. He can not continue without insulting. After all he is an insulter. -- ilp'<< Rank n' File Muslims everywhere should be insulted by the treachery that is being inflicted by muslim terrorists in the name of Islam! Then, they must own up to the fact that they are the enablers which have insured the success of the terrorists! Yes I know ilpar, it's hard to look at the true image of a sick Islam - but, if Islam is to have any hope for curing itself, you and your muslim brothers need to face the facts. >>3. He knows he caughted flat-footed. By insulting, he trying to make other side also to insult. -- ilpard<< Ha Ha Ha, flat-footed aye aye! Hey like the old sea lawyer said: don't get so attached to your position that when it gets sunk, your ego sinks along with it! The fact is ilpar, that your defense of Islam is untenable based on observable and quantifiable reality! Yes, the Turk Generals have kept a lid on the Islamic Beast for decades, unfortunately it's rearing it's ugly head again, just when the NeoTurks want to make a good impression on the EU and NATO. >>For your knowledge, yes AQ allied terrorists started to bomb civilian places. Of course you failed to mention that all the dead and wounded are Turks. Apperantly you do not care if dead ones are Turks. After all they are worthless Muslims for you, aren't they.--illprepared<< You tickle me ilpars! That's gotta be the most 'creative' twist yet for the bombing of 2 Synagogues and the British Embassy in Turkey! However it diverges dramatically from the facts of the matter: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 Posted: 6:43 PM EST (2343 GMT) ANKARA, Turkey -- Last weekend's deadly synagogue attacks in Istanbul were carried out by two Turkish suicide bombers and Turkish accomplices with al Qaeda sympathies, Turkey's foreign minister said. "Two Turks carried out the suicide attacks, but there were other Turks involved, too," Abdullah Gul told The Associated Press by telephone from Stockholm, Sweden. Gul's comments came as funerals were being held for the six Jewish victims of Saturday's bombings. No I'm not "flat-footed" ilpard, but it is apparent that your feet are stuck in the CEMENT of ISLAM's LIES! On Watch - Let's Roll

And English is not my main language but even I understand that "the perversion of faith pervades today’s Islamic mainstream" has a very different meaning then "Islamic mainstream is perverse". - ilpars =================================== >>...English is not my main language but even I understand that "the perversion of faith pervades today’s Islamic mainstream"... --Illpar<< Well at least one Muslin is comming out of denial...And that's good to hear! Sounds like you're making progress! Yes the perversion of Islamo-Fascism continues to be pervasive in mainstream Islam... The question that remains to be answered is, whether ISLAM will change itself, or if the USA, of necessity, must continue to be the primary change agent for Islamic perestroika? - On Watch =================================== I came back to read this thread after a few days away, and frankly On Watch, I have to say I was stunned by your selective misquoting here. It COMPLETELY changes the sense of what ilpars was saying! To use your Discussion Trick #2, that sort of thing is dishonest. It gives a lot of support to, if not outright confirming, ilpars' very next paragraph from the post that you selectively quoted: "I think Mr. OnWatch is a selective reader. He reads the part that is according to his vision then omits the part that is not totaly in line with his vision." OzWobbles..

Of course the US soldiers must respect muslim customs and ways of life. But only to a certain point, if illegal weapons are being hidden in mosques the weapons must be seized along with the men or women who hid them there, peacefully if possible and by force if nessary. If iraqis and all muslims in general would show more cooperation western and their own authorities there would be less misunderstanding between US soldiers and regular law-abiding iraqis and muslims. and a quick comment on the abuse cases in iraqis prisons by certain US soldiers, in my opinion these abusive acts were commited by perverse, and sick individuals, and they should be punished acordingly. and they in no way reflect upon the US armed forces as a whole. but we must no forget that the people in these prisons are the same terrorists who are mercilessly killing innocent iraqis with car bombs and US soldiers in ambush attacks. so lets not forget who the victims are here.

If OnWatch did not continue his selective reading, he would have seen in my posts that the bombings in Turkey has been done by DHKP-C terrorist organisation. DHKP-C is a Turkish Communist Islamist terrorist organization recently (2003) allied to AQ terrorist coaliton. They are rsponible for the last year's and this week's terrorist bombings. In this week 4 killed ad more than 20 wounded by their bombings all were Turks.In fact 1 of the bombs exploded in a public bus. It is appearent in my last post that I was talking about latest bombings. But OnWatch instantly went to 2003 bombings. Appearantly it is true that he does not care when the killed ones are Turk. Mr. OnWatch do not have to remind me the Turkish traitors. 1 by 1 all of them will be caught and they will all spent very long years of their life in Turkish prisons. By now more than 20 of them are in prison. As they are a small organisation it is a serious blow to them. By the way I am not a representative of Islam. And Islam has no need of defense. The ones who know Islam knows that Islam is a peaceful religion. And the others can believe whatever they like. I just like to show a mirror to the face of a facist (that is OnWatch). I have a personal dislike of them as 1 of them have insulted one my close friends at USA with only reason that he is a muslim.

>>>>Let's all say congragulations to OnWatch. He even confuse leftist demonstrators with fundementalists.--ilpar<<<< On Watch responded: Al-Qaida-linked suicide bombers killed more than 60 people in a series of bombings in November. >>>For your knowledge, yes AQ allied terrorists started[Nov '03] to bomb civilian places. Of course you failed to mention that all the dead and wounded are Turks.--ilpar<<< ON Watch responded: ... funerals were being held for the six Jewish victims... >>It is appearent in my last post that I was talking about latest bombings. But OnWatch instantly went to 2003 bombings.--ilpar<< No your re-spin was not "apparent" at all my friend. And your latest contribution is another illustration of your denial that, 'mainstream Islam has become perverted by the objectives of the Islamofascists'. However, I do trully hope that your optimistic incantations: "Islam has no need of defense. The ones who know Islam knows that Islam is a peaceful religion." -- ilpars finds it's way to Allahs ears, and your celestial account is credited for your Blind Faith -- but --I still think that mainstream Islam needs to pump out their cesspool before the Islamofascist bacteria pollutes them completely. On Watch BTW, So sorry to hear about your "friend" who visited the USA. Was he one of those CAIR "muslims" ? If so, tell him to find another charity.

the respect should be mutual. the atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib pale in comparison to the atrocities committed by muslim radicals around the world. beheading innocent people, many how were attempting to help the iraq people rebuild their country, is so many times worse then "embarassing" criminals. demonizing and killing anyone who is different then you is hardly respectful.

Try to get over it, Drink a Fosters through a straw. SWAK, On Watch

Three Turkish workers have fallen victim to the hostage-taking T&J movement in Iraq, and are threatened with decapitation by Tuesday likely unless Turkey withdraws it workers from Iraq, ends its relations with Israel, withdraws from NATO, wipes with the left, seig heils with the right, yada yada. My money's on that the Turkish hostages will be released unharmed, without Turkey responding to the demands. But if they're not? Will Zarqawi actually decapitate 3 fellow Sunnis, innocent workers captured in a cowardly kidnapping? Will Turkey be the Islamic face on our efforts to smash terrorism? 'Coz smashin' times a-coming.

The problem at Abu Grayyib was not a lack of sensitivity training, nor an anti-Islamic bias. Actually, I am surprised at the deliberate policy of not demonizing Muslims adopted by this administration. It is a refreshing change from historical wartime policy. The problem at the prison is similar to problems in Afghanistan - and even involves one of the same units. It is a combination of the impact of several policy decisions and situations: 1) The general lack of linguistic skills of US forces, including CIA. 2) The decision not to stand up or massively train MPs up front. The need for them has resulted in a lot of young people with little MP experience entering the system. 3) The decision not to follow standard DOD practice with regard to defense lawyers in the system (they were forbidden), 4) The decision to utilize a facility that should have been destroyed (it is to be destroyed now) because if its history, compounded by overcrowding that facility, making it dangerous, 5) The unprofessional fear of the (female) commander to enter her own facility and be aware of conditions in person (which is not optional for a commander) 6) The pressure for better information produced by the insurgency 7) The willingness of this administration to disregard normal US legal safegards with respect to prisoners thought to be terrorists. This apparently includes even techniques so harsh a prisoner died from being struck in the head - something that is not legal under US military law (I am an MP captain). These conditions are self correcting in the sense they were improper, illegal, and bound to come out and cause a disciplinary process. It was a lack of maturity and wisdom on the part of many persons that let these things happen in the first place. BUT IT WAS US SOLDIERS who reported these matters and caused them to get addressed. At least 3 soldiers in the prison separately reported improper behaviors/events, and many more have backed them up since. Unlike a tyranny, our system has ways for low level people to seek and obtain justice. If we are smart, this can be turned around. This administration lacks grace in communications style, but it is doing the correct thing to a degree - not blocking reform. However, instead of understating it, it should have reacted with more horrer at first. The system broke because CIA used civilian contractors almost beyond the reach of the law, and the military allowed itself to be bossed by them - improperly. If experienced MPs had been present, we would have arrested the contractors, and even senior officers witnessing certain events. I am the sort of guy who likes doing that sort of thing. If they resisted, they would not survive. I am also the sort of soldier who will seal an evidence scene until JAG officers arrive. And I don't care who does not like it. Once the decision has been made, the place is shut down,period. I could tell you tales. I was trained by the USMC to win hearts and minds, and the USMC got it is hard field experience in over a century of campaigns, not from some academic. I teach and require my people to behave well, and my experience is this pays off big if you practice it.

When will Muslims learn to respect other people? Beheading people is offensive to us, as is regarding non-Muslim life as of less value than Muslim life; homicide bombings, honor killings and beatings of women are also offensive to us Americans. When will Muslims stop doing things like that? When will these things change in Islam? First, take the beam out of your own eye before attempting to look at the beam that is in America's.