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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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ilpars    RE:Wahhabi in Islam - AK's paradox.   6/17/2004 11:05:59 AM
I do not know anything about Deobandi branch. But if they are both fundementalist and Hanefi they must be in serious paradox. Hanefi sect strictly follows the teachings of Ebu Hanefi, one of the greatest Islamic scholars that has ever lived. His teachings are very liberal. A fundementalist on the other hand completely disregard the workings of scholars. They believed that scholars works were true for their age but nor suitable for modern life. So if they are a fundementalist Hanefi group; they must both follow Ebu Hanefi's teachings and not follow them. As this is not possible they can not be both fundementalist and Hanefi.
 
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ilpars    Deobandi Islam   6/17/2004 11:12:49 AM
AK, let's read and learn what is Deobandi. from http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/islam-deobandi.htm DEOBANDI ISLAM The northern Indian Deobandi school argues that the reason Islamic societies have fallen behind the West in all spheres of endeavor is because they have been seduced by the amoral and material accoutrements of Westernization, and have deviated from the original pristine teachings of the Prophet. Deoband is a town a hundred miles north of Delhi where a madrasa (religious school) was established there in 1867. The so-called 'Deobandi Tradition' itself is much older than the eponymous Dar-Ul-Ulum at Deoband. The Deoband madrasa brought together Muslims who were hostile to British rule and committed to a literal and austere interpretation of Islam. For the last 200 years, Sunnis often have looked to the example of the Deoband madrassa (religious school) near Delhi, India. The Deoband school has long sought to purify Islam by discarding supposedly un-Islamic accretions to the faith and reemphasizing the models established in the Koran and the customary practices of the Prophet Mohammed. Additionally, Deobandi scholars often have opposed what they perceive as Western influences. Just as Sikhs originated from Hinduism, but are not Hindus, and Protestants came from Roman Catholicism, but are not Catholics, similarly, the Deobandi sect originated in the Sunni community, but are not strictly Sunnis. The tack of Darul Uloom Deoband is in accordance with the Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jama'ah, Hanafiate practical method (Mazhab) and the disposition (Mashrab) of its holy founders, Hazrat Maulana Mohammad Qasim Nanautavi (Allah's mercy be on him!) and Hazrat Maulana Rasheed Ahmed Gangohi (may his secret be sanctified). The Deobandi interpretation holds that a Muslim's first loyalty is to his religion and only then to the country of which he is a citizen or a resident; secondly, that Muslims recognise only the religious frontiers of their Ummah and not the national frontiers; thirdly,that they have a sacred right and obligation to go to any country to wage jihad to protect the Muslims of that country. The Deobandi interpretation of Islamic teachings is widely practiced in Pakistan. The Deobandi movement in Sunni Islam, was founded in response to British colonial rule in India and later hardened in Pakistan into bitter opposition to what its members views as the country's neo-colonial elite. The Islamic Deobandi militants share the Taliban's restrictive view of women, and regard Pakistan's minority Shiia as non-Muslim. They seek a pure leader, or amir, to recreate Pakistani society according to the egalitarian model of Islam's early days under the Prophet Mohammed. President Musharraf himself, is a Deobandi, actually born in the city in India, where the school took it's name. During the first half of April 2000, the Government of Pakistan permitted a 3-day conference organized by the Deobandi Muslim political party Jamiat-Ulema-Islami (JUI). Several speakers at the conference made anti-Western political declarations. Deobandi and Barelvi sects struggled, sometimes violently, for control over local mosques in Lahore neighborhoods. The fundamentalist Deoband Dar-ul-Uloom brand of Islam inspired the Taliban movement and had widespread appeal for Muslim fundamentalists. Most of the Taliban leadership attended Deobandi-influenced seminaries in Pakistan. The Taliban was propped up initially by the civil government of Benazir Bhutto, then in coalition with the Deobandi Jama'at-ulema Islam (JUI) led by Maulana Fazlur Rehman [who by 2003 was the elected opposition leader at the Center in Islamabad and whose protégé is now the chief Minister in the NWFP]. Traditionally, Sunni Islam of the Hanafi school of jurisprudence was the dominant religion of Afganistan. The Taliban also adhered to the Hanafi school of Sunni Islam, making it the dominant religion in the country for most of 2001. For the last 200 years, Sunnis often have looked to the example of the Deoband madrassah (religious school) near Delhi, India. Most of the Taliban leadership attended Deobandi-influenced seminaries in Pakistan. The Deoband school has long sought to purify Islam by discarding supposedly un-Islamic accretions to the faith and reemphasizing the models established in the Koran and the customary practices of the Prophet Mohammed. Additionally, Deobandi scholars often have opposed what they perceive as Western influences. Much of the population adheres to Deobandi-influenced Hanafi Sunnism, but a sizable minority adheres to a more mystical version of Sunnism generally known as Sufism. Sufism centers on orders or brotherhoods that follow charismatic religious leaders. Although the majority of the Islamic population (Sunni) in Afghanistan and Pakistan, belong to the Hanafi sect, the theologians who have pushed Pakistan towards Islamic Radicalism for decades, as well as the ones who were the founders of
 
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American Kafir    RE:Deobandi Islam   6/18/2004 9:08:58 AM
In what way is Deobandi Islam different than Wahabi Islam? And how is it that Wahabism is "co-opting" Deobandism in South Asia? Would that not make it it a growing majority within Islam, rather than, as you've said, a "minority?"
 
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appleciderus    Lunacy!   6/18/2004 9:52:02 AM
***”We all know that Saddam's regime was ruthless. We just qualify Americans from a very different set of standarts. We expect Americans to be much better than their enemies. Prison abuses so shocked us because of these higher expectations.”*** ***”The northern Indian Deobandi school argues that the reason Islamic societies have fallen behind the West in all spheres of endeavor is because they have been seduced by the amoral and material accoutrements of Westernization, and have deviated from the original pristine teachings of the Prophet.”*** What Lunacy is this? On one hand you argue that Islamic societies have fallen behind the West because they have been seduced by the “amoral” (do you know what the word means?) West. Then you feel comfortable saying “We” expect Americans to be “better”. “Amoral” – “not concerned with moral standards” This is not a grammatical error on your part: it is a flaw in logic. Do you expect America to be better than its enemies because Americans are morally superior? Under what logic do you hold Americans to a higher standard? What excuse do you offer for critics who refuse to hold themselves to the standards they demand from me? This is madness! How dare you condemn me for celebrating prison abuses by dancing in the streets of NY, Dallas, Chicago, or Denver, (never happened) and say nothing about the dancing in Cairo, Tehran, Islamabad, Jakarta, Singapore, and the rest of the islamic world over the beheadings of live and innocent prisoners. What a farce! I will give your opinion consideration when I see a photo of you walking the streets of Damascus, Qum, Singapore, Baghdad or Tripoli wearing a sandwich sign that reads “STOP ISLAMIC TERRORISM”. Until then your words are empty. What arrogance to blame Islamic failure on Western corruption, and in the next breath, expect higher moral behavior from those you claim corrupted you. Will muslims ever accept responsibility for islam’s failures? Mark these words, Americans are increasingly intolerant of the double standard its enemies utilize to hurt us. Beware the end of patience.
 
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ilpars    Deobandi and Wahhabi   6/18/2004 10:03:30 AM
Deobandi Islam is also minority in Islam world. It is only popular at India and Pakistan. Deobandi isa renagade sect of Hanefi and Wahhabis are a renagade sect of Hanbali sect. They have only in common of being both fundementalism. Therefore they declined any work of Islamic scholars other than their own leaders. You can not see this approach in Sunni Islam. All scolars from the four sects (schools) of Sunni Islam, shares their opinion with each other. According to Deobandi the other schools(sects) are wrong but they still respects them. Continous Jihad is a part of Deobandi belief started because of their resistance against British rule at India. They do not believe in borders or nations. So radical sub-groups are ready to go amywhere for Jihad. But according to Wahhabis all other sects are also infidels. And they also (only they) believed that all infidels who are trying to stop the expansion of Wahhabism must be killed. All the Wahhabies who dies for Wahhabism will directly go to Heaven (which you can not see in any other sect.) You are probably getting your false opinion from Wahhabis. In no other sects it is called that infidels must be killed. And that is why during WW1 Wahhabis declared Jihad against Ottoman Empire (another Muslim state). In Wahhabi belief obeying the Saudi family has also a very important point. As they are coming from the Ebu-Wahhabi the founder of the sect. Taliban is Deobandi and Al-Queda's inner circle is Wahabi. From that we can say that the radical sub-groups of both sects are cooperating. But I do not think that both sects can cooperate in a larger scale. They have too many differances.
 
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ilpars    RE:Lunacy! - appleciderus   6/18/2004 10:05:24 AM
I am Turk, [perjorative deleted by sysops] When I say we, I only mean Turks.
 
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ilpars    RE:Lunacy! - appleciderus   6/18/2004 10:11:08 AM
And the article I have put is from the http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/intro/islam-deobandi.htm site. Did you have at least check where it came from? You are far less than a troll. You can be only a kobold.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Deobandi and Wahhabi   6/18/2004 11:17:02 AM
Is there a school / sect of Sunni or Shia Islam that doesn't have a branch of militant fundamentalists? The Deobandi and Wahhabi seem similar enough to get along with each other at terrorist camp class reunions.
 
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ilpars    RE:Deobandi and Wahhabi - AK   6/18/2004 12:37:36 PM
They are not branches. They are renagades.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Deobandi and Wahhabi - AK   6/18/2004 1:47:14 PM
>>They are not branches. They are renagades.<< Is that really any different from what they call other Muslims and each other? Everyone else is wrong? Except for the "killing the infidel" part. They all agree on that.
 
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