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Subject: Americans must respect Islam
salaam al-aqaaid    5/13/2004 10:18:35 AM
The outrageous atrocities commited by Americans at the Abu al-Grayyib prison complex speaks to a need for the United States Americans to give sensetivity training to its entire military so that they will no longer offind Muslims with the contemptious use of women as prison guards and unsavery adiction to homosexual pornographies. These things are offinsive to the Muslims community. Have you no shame? You must remove all women and homosexuals from contact with Muslim prisoners. This is offinsive.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:Americans must respect Islam   10/14/2004 8:44:19 AM
...Humiliating, not physically harming, prisoners who fought for Islamofascist causes is the best away, aside from slaughter, to dissuade such people from trying to return the world, especially the west, to the tenth century. Those who attempt to do so will suffer what to them is horrid humiliation... What those guards did to the prisoners was against military laws. It was reported to by military personnel to military authorities. The perpetrators are being tried and convicted in military courts martial. It was and is not acceptable behavior for U.S. military personnel. In addition to that, it gave our enemies valuable propaganda to use against us all across the Islamic world. A Marine friend just back from Afghanistan told me that it made his work there harder and more dangerous.
 
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swhitebull    More on the Nazi-Fascist Origins of the Baath Party    10/14/2004 10:03:09 AM
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15477 swhitebull - Islamo-Fascists IS the proper label for these guys, and their little dogs too. guess what book is the number 2 best seller in Egypt and the West Bank and Gaza after the Quran? It's Mein Kampf.
 
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sorkoi2003    RE:More on the Nazi-Fascist Origins of the Baath Party    10/14/2004 11:45:03 AM
There is little doubt that Baath party was based around the vanguardist model of political parties pioneered by Lenin and Mussolini and taken up by Hitler. Alas, the Baathist are not Islamists and Islamists are not Baathist - I am not sure what you refering to here. If you simply think that anyone that is enemy of the US is fascist by defination that fine (though such polemical uses of the concept of fascism enjoy wide popular currency- its funny money- it does not have much analytical value).
 
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realpolitik    Why don't we call radical Islamicists what they really are?   10/14/2004 2:13:46 PM
Theocrats. .
 
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sorkoi2003    RE: What's a theocrat?   10/14/2004 3:36:49 PM
What is theorcrat? What is non-radical Islamist? What is an Islamist?
 
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elcid    RE:Americans must respect Islam   10/14/2004 5:38:39 PM
You missed the point. There was a prisoner taken to a bathroom and beaten to death - in the presence of a general officer - who was unwise enough to allow his stars be photographed. This is not exactly "humiliation" and it is grounds for criminal proceedings. I regret only I didn't walk in the room during. It would have ended there and then.
 
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elcid    RE:More on the Nazi-Fascist Origins of the Baath Party    10/14/2004 5:41:56 PM
Oddly, WE are fascist, technically. And the Nazi variation of that theme was not a right wing thing, as is often alleged, but in their own view a left wing one. Sork is right - it was Lenin who inspired these guys - and Nazi is the National SOCIALIST peoples workers party. And Sork is right about something else - Baathists are not Islamic - they are nationalists of a peculiar Arab sort.
 
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Rainmaker-55    RE:Americans must respect Islam   10/14/2004 7:37:39 PM
"Atrocity" in the prison scandal, is a poor, extreme word to describe what happened. It is more akin to some boorish behavior by a group of frat-boys during their fraternity's initiation of new pledges. "Atrocity" is a good description for each of the mass graves that Saddam made in Iraq, such as the most recent one found, with the remains of women still clutching the remains of their infant children. That, is a classic example of an "Atrocity." Sensitivity training for the entire U.S. military? I will not even dignify that idea with a remark. Respect Islam? Of course we do. It's in our Bill of Rights, a part called "Freedom of Religion." We treat all religions as an EQUAL to ANY other religion, not better, and not worse. We favor no one religion, or allow any one religion to place itself, above all others.
 
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realpolitik    RE: What's a theocrat?   10/14/2004 8:44:10 PM
sork:What is theorcrat? What is non-radical Islamist? What is an Islamist? Sorkoi, you sometimes appear to take this questioning of basic premises beyond the extreme. I think you would be a big fan of Donald Rumsfeld: the poetry of Donald Rumsfeld: The Unknown As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know We don't know. Theocrat: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theocrat Theocracy: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theocracy Islamist: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=islamist The only term I see which is up for interpretation here is "radical", which if you look it up only leads to further definitions up for interpretation, because it is in a relative term. For Sorkois sake, and using my world view (anyone who is not in this world view, please speak up) - the defintion of Radical Islamist is someone who wants to use violent means to impose *THEIR* belief in Islam (which other Islamists might not agree with) upon those around them, be that in their Mosque, in their town, in their county, in their state, in their country, in their region, or in the world. And yes, under this defintion, we can say that the current U.S. administration could be classified as Radical democrats (small "d"). .
 
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swhitebull    RE: What's a theocrat? realpolitick   10/14/2004 9:24:40 PM
I think you would be a big fan of Donald Rumsfeld: the poetry of Donald Rumsfeld: The Unknown As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don''t know We don''t know. GREAT POST - either you or Rumsfeld is a fan of Greg Stafford, author of the fantasy roleplaying world of Glorantha, wherein in one of his unfinished works - the Glorious Ascent of Yelm (the Sun) - details the reign of the great Emperor, who mulls of the things he KNOWS, the things he knows but can not see: "When Yelm arranged the world, he called all things to him that he could see, and named them. In this way, Yelm named all of the things in his realm which he could see, and he came to know them. Then Yelm summoned all those being which would come to him, but had not. In this way, the hidden things came forward to Yelm's knowledge. He named them, and in this way came to know all the things which would obey him. "For some time, Yelm was content, for he knew all which was knowable or necessary to be known. Yet one day, he felt troubled, and so he ordered his agents to find the source of the troubles. "Then Yelm's agents brought in those beings and creatures which would not obey Yelm, and which were invisible to him. In this way, the beings which could resist Yelm were found, for they could not resist his servants. Yelm named them, though most did not honor him or gift afterwards. "Yet there ws still more which troubled the perfection of Yelm. In his infinite Wisdom, yelm understood that in addition to the One, was the Other. He had already experienced something which he did not know, when his agents brought him the disobedient. And he thought there must be others, too, but could not know what they are. "Of course, his Infinite Wisdom was correct, and the Others came to him. And all the types of Others came to him, and he came to see them and know them. Although he sometimes couldn't know them, he somehow had at least sensed them to his satisfaction. Yelm spent much of his secret time trying to understand these things, so that they even disturbed his meditations. One day something else came to Yelm. It was not a known thing, and when questioned it would not reply. It was A NEW thing. Yelm named it Entekos, but it did not accept that name, "I have a name of my own", it said foolishly. SO that was the first rebel God, who did not submit. Yelm could see the dangers of this creature to his realm, and so he made strict rules to contain it. When the Wrong AIr was restricted by the rules of Yelm, it burst into angry violence which made all of the peaceful gods so firghtened that they ran away. "For a while, Yelm ordered his children Shargash and Lodril to be the enforcers of Yelm's divine will, and for awhile Wrong Air was contained. For a time there was peace in teh world agian, for the fighting and trouble were kept far away, at the edge of the Universe. But as the way of trouble, it found a new way to come again. "Everything which had substance was known, or knowable, by the Emperor Yelm. Then Rebels then created something which was Not Being. This was a firghtening thiing, for it was not a thing but instead was an Absense, and so it was utterly invisible. Even now thins thing, which we call DEATH. is felt as an absense, not a presence. ........ One day, the rebel gods came to slay Muharzarm, the Son of the Sun. When Yelm looked upon the burning corpse of his murdered son, a great shock entered into his being through his eyes and reverberated through his whole self. This was a terrible thing which he had never seen before, since DEATH did not exist inthe Divine Realm of Yelm. It was beyond Yelm's comprehension. He confronted the Impossible, and the impact shook Yelm to the core of his bieng. So fierce was this assault upon the God of Life tha he shook and shuddered, and fell upon the ground with a terrible groan which razed cities and forests, and shook the stars from teh sky. Sol terrile was this knowledge that GOD could not exist with it. THe ONE, at last, saw the OTHER, and with a final cry of anguish, the ONE broke. As he son had before him, Yelm disintegrated. . The immortal essense that was Yelm journeyed to the Underworld, where, his divine light extinguished, at the bottom, at the lightless world in the Land of the Dead, Yelm sat and smeared himself with ashes, and waited for Justice to come to him in the infinite Darkness that his Death had brought upon the Universe. Sorry about the longwindedness, but there are striking parallels between what you wrote about Rumsfeld's (and george tenet's) and bush's view of the war on terror, and the words of Greg Stafford in describing the end of the World (our way of life). swhitebull - What do you think? See the Parallels? Greg wrote this in 1993.
 
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