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Subject: FN FAL in Iraq
jofredes    4/22/2004 2:41:27 AM
While we are talking about AK74:s how about the FN FAL:s that have been seen in use by the insurgents on the pictures fron the latest fighing in Iraq. Has the Fal been in in previous use by the Iraqi army(in smaller numbers perhaps before the AK47 became standard)? At the beginning of the war you could see pictures of militiamen armed with H&K G3:s, these obviously must have been captured from the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war, but I cant see where the Fal should how come from, hardly from Iran.
 
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Worcester    RE:FN FAL in Iraq   4/22/2004 2:26:41 PM
Second hand market (hope none are ex-UK!) or a state providing them "through" the market. You find FN's around all the Gulf States and the Iranian did have some prior to the G-3. The REAL question is who is supplying the 7.62 x 51 ammo - find them and you find the source of the FN's and G-3's. Could very well be Iran.
 
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Worcester    RE:FN FAL in Iraq   4/22/2004 2:32:31 PM
The 7.62mm ammo question is important because it has a 10-12 year shelf-life (depending on conditions) and NATO went 5.56mm 20 years ago...so, it has to be someone new. Like Iran. Despite the fact they're in the wrong hands, am pleased to see one of my classic favorites making a come back. FN & G-3 still vastly superior to M16 or AK in desert and arid/urban warfare. And the enhanced body armor wont stop it.
 
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Final Historian    RE:FN FAL in Iraq   4/22/2004 3:42:58 PM
Yes, actually, it will. The new Interceptor vests are rated against 7.62 mm rounds, including the larger NATO ones.
 
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American Kafir    RE:FN FAL in Iraq   4/22/2004 3:56:43 PM
Still don't want to be hit by one. In a rather unscientific backyard test, I fired a hollow-point 7.62mm round from a Chinese-model SKS from 50 yards at a NATO-surplus flak armor vest wrapped snug around a pillow. The bullet barely scored the vinyl covering, did not penetrate the kevlar plating, but feathers from the pillow went EVERYWHERE. That would seem to indicate you're going to get a nasty bruise no matter how armored you are.
 
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Heorot    RE:FN FAL in Iraq   4/22/2004 4:22:03 PM
Thats what ceramic plates are for. To spread the impact over a wider area. Having said that. I know someone who was hit in the shoulder by a sniper in Bosnia while wearing a jacket with plates. No penetration and no broken bones. It just felt like is was broken and he was effectively one armed for over a week from the bruising.
 
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American Kafir    RE:FN FAL in Iraq   4/22/2004 5:23:26 PM
>>Thats what ceramic plates are for. To spread the impact over a wider area. Having said that. I know someone who was hit in the shoulder by a sniper in Bosnia while wearing a jacket with plates. No penetration and no broken bones. It just felt like is was broken and he was effectively one armed for over a week from the bruising<< I wince just thinking about the bruising. I've got a friend with a USArmy medical discharge from his service in Kosovo after getting his kneecap shot off by "someone" with an AK-47. I say "someone" because it was difficult to identify the unarmored remains of the shooter as a Kosovar or Serb after his patrol unloaded their M-16s into him.
 
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Final Historian    RE:FN FAL in Iraq   4/22/2004 5:24:54 PM
The kinetic energy doesn't just disappear, it has to be absorbed somewhere. Which means that even if they can get armor that can defeat .50 cal rounds, it will hurt like a b----. Lucky if you could even get up after that...
 
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Tommy Atkins    RE:FN FAL in Iraq worcester   4/22/2004 5:39:29 PM
FN FALS wont be from the UK mate. The version we used was the SLR.Quite a bit different from the belgian thingy. BTW,Hi everyone,Im still alive!! Burying my head in the sand at the moment and spending time with family.Havnt looked at the news for ages. Going to get back on the boards at some point,but just enjoying civvy life at the moment. Best wishes to AK,SWHITEBULL,FH & the gang.
 
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gf0012-aust    FN FAL    4/23/2004 7:18:06 AM
It's an unlikely source, but India is a huge user of the FN-SLR. They've been replacing them from the frontline units and donating them to the police force. Some are still in use in their training units though. But for sheer volume users, India is probably the biggest remaining "type" owner.
 
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jofredes    RE:FN FAL    4/23/2004 8:05:13 AM
Wasn't the FAL the standard weapon of the kuwaiti army? how many rifles did the kuwaitis have and how many of these ended up in the hands of the iraqis?
 
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