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Subject: US LACKS INTELLIGENCE ON IRAN
GBU28    3/9/2005 2:06:01 AM
March 9, 2005 Data Is Lacking on Iran's Arms, U.S. Panel Says By DOUGLAS JEHL and ERIC SCHMITT http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/09/international/09weapons.html?hp&ex=1110430800&en=48649e4ca2d8893d&ei=5094&partner=homepage WASHINGTON, March 8 - A commission due to report to President Bush this month will describe American intelligence on Iran as inadequate to allow firm judgments about Iran's weapons programs, according to people who have been briefed on the panel's work. The report comes as intelligence agencies prepare a new formal assessment on Iran, and follows a 14-month review by the panel, which Mr. Bush ordered last year to assess the quality of overall intelligence about the proliferation of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. The Bush administration has been issuing increasingly sharp warnings about what it says are Iran's efforts to build nuclear weapons. The warnings have been met with firm denials in Tehran, which says its nuclear program is intended purely for civilian purposes. The most complete recent statement by American agencies about Iran and its weapons, in an unclassified report sent to Congress in November by Porter J. Goss, director of central intelligence, said Iran continued "to vigorously pursue indigenous programs to produce nuclear, chemical and biological weapons." The International Atomic Energy Agency, which has been conducting inspections in Iran for two years, has said it has not found evidence of any weapons program. But the agency has also expressed skepticism about Iran's insistence that its nuclear activities are strictly civilian. The nine-member bipartisan presidential panel, led by Laurence Silberman, a retired federal judge, and Charles S. Robb, a former governor and senator from Virginia, had unrestricted access to the most senior people and the most sensitive documents of the intelligence agencies. In its report, the panel is also expected to be sharply critical of American intelligence on North Korea. But in interviews, people who have been briefed on the commission's deliberations and conclusions said they regarded the record on Iran as particularly worrisome. One person who described the panel's deliberations and conclusions characterized American intelligence on Iran as "scandalous," given the importance and relative openness of the country, compared with such an extreme case as North Korea. That person and others who have been briefed on the panel's work would not be more specific in describing the inadequacies. But former government officials who are experts on Iran say that while American intelligence agencies have devoted enormous resources to Iran since the Islamic revolution of 1979, they have had little success in the kinds of human spying necessary to understand Iranian decision-making. Among the major setbacks, former intelligence officials have said, was the successful penetration in the late 1980's by Iranian authorities of the principal American spy network inside the country, which was being run from a C.I.A. station in Frankfurt. The arrests of reported American spies was known at the time, but the impact on American intelligence reverberated as late as the mid-1990's. A spokesman for the commission, Carl Kropf, declined to comment about any conclusions reached. The last National Intelligence Estimate on Iran was completed in 2001 and is now being reassessed, according to American intelligence officials. As a first step, the National Intelligence Council, which produces the estimates and reports to Mr. Goss, is expected this spring to circulate a classified update that will focus on Iran and its weapons. In Congress, the Senate Intelligence Committee has recently begun its own review into the quality of intelligence on Iran, in what the Republican and Democratic leaders of the panel have described as an effort to pre-empt any repeat of the experience in Iraq, where prewar American assertions about illicit weapons proved to be mistaken. But Congressional officials say the language of some recent intelligence reports on Iran has included more caveats and qualifications than in the past, in what they described as the agencies' own response to the Iraq experience. In testimony last month, intelligence officials from several agencies told Congress that they were convinced that Tehran wanted nuclear weapons, but also said the uncertainty played to Iran's advantage. "The Iranians don't necessarily have to have a successful nuclear program in order to have the deterrent value," said Carol A. Rodley, the State Department's second-ranking top intelligence official. "They merely have to convince us, others and their neighbors that they do." The commission's findings will also include recommendations for further structural changes among intelligence agencies, to build on the legislation Mr. Bush signed in December that sets up a new director of national intelligence. Among the proposals discussed but ap
 
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NewGuy    RE:US LACKS INTELLIGENCE ON IRAN   3/9/2005 3:36:35 PM
Wow...so Iran is NOT pursuing nuclear weapons, GBU? Is that what you want us to believe? Otherwise what is the point of this article? That intelligence on Iran is not perfect? Duh. If nations only acted when they had perfect intelligence no nation never ever act on anything...hum, perhaps that is what you are suggesting, once again "DO NOTHING"? "One person who described the panel's deliberations and conclusions characterized American intelligence on Iran as "scandalous," Whay am I not surprised. Yet another nameless face whose information cannot be verified nor checked, which makes this statement virtually worthless. Remember CBS. "But the (IAEA) agency has also expressed skepticism about Iran's insistence that its nuclear activities are strictly civilian." So even the IAEA says that it thinks it likely that Iran is attempting to gain nuclear weapons technology/ability...not to mention that most European nations also say the same exact thing. Let me guess GBU, everyones intelligence is faulty and Iran is really just a misunderstood state actor, right? Sorry GBU, but you can't cover the Iranian Mullahs rear-ends, no matter what kind of diversionary stuff you post...their day is coming, sooner or later. That day I will celebrate along with the free people of Iran. NewGuy
 
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EW3    RE:US LACKS INTELLIGENCE ON IRAN   3/9/2005 6:06:37 PM
Remember when the word got the Pentagon was going to create a department of "misinformation"? But then they said they were not going to do it? Well....
 
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sentinel28a    RE:US LACKS INTELLIGENCE ON IRAN   3/9/2005 6:26:57 PM
Just because it turned out Saddam was running a bluff doesn't mean that Iran is as well. We should be damned careful, but keep in mind that we can't just play "wishful thinking" in that Iran's nuclear ambitions are entirely peaceful. Not until the IAEA can say with absolute certainty, and the Iranians are willing to allow American inspectors in there as well. If they pass both tests, well and good--but we continue developing a viable missile defense, on the old adage of "trust in Allah, but tie up your camel." If they don't, well...
 
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GBU28    Newguy again aloof   3/9/2005 11:10:40 PM
Well that was several accusations so, I'll take them one at a time. :-) ------------------------------------------------------------- Newguy wrote: Wow...so Iran is NOT pursuing nuclear weapons, GBU? Is that what you want us to believe? -------------------------------------------------------------- No... I never said that. Where did you get that from. Again, your comments are wildly inaccurate when it comes to trying to pinpoint my intentions. Maybe it is a lesson that you are not competent as a mind reader. LOL. I made no comment on the article when I posted it, so how would you know what I thought about it???? I do indeed believe that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons and have stated so many many times on this board. Perhaps you were engaging in some unwise and unhealthy activities this morning Newguy and it affected your memory. I advise cutting back. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Newguy wrote: Wow...so Iran is NOT pursuing nuclear weapons, GBU? Is that what you want us to believe? Otherwise what is the point of this article? That intelligence on Iran is not perfect? Duh. If nations only acted when they had perfect intelligence no nation never ever act on anything...hum, perhaps that is what you are suggesting, once again "DO NOTHING"? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh god... do we have to go through this again. Your attempts to take what I said out of context and use it in a context to suits you, in an attempt to discredit me, won't work. When I made the statement "we should do nothing" I meant in terms of military action, and said so in my post. At this time, we should attempt to take Iran to the security council and enact sanctions in an attempt to persaude Iran to give up its program. If that fails, we should then attack, but only if we know we have credible intelligence and would lead us to believe that we know where most of Iran's nuclear capability is hidden and we're confident we could take it out. If we are not confident that an air strike would take out thier nuclear program, either because our intel is lacking or for some other reason, then obviously we should not attack and simply move hundreds of nuclear assets into the region and rely on deterrence to hold the Iran's nuclear capabilities at bay. This, again, for like the 10th time has been my consistent argument from the start newguy... so your constant "DO NOTHING" retort only makes you look totally unitelligent in that you can't get it through your head what I really said. That, or you just don't have any real argumentative skills with which to debate with, so you simply fall back on misquoting and distorting what people say. Hey... if you want... "we can go to the video tape" and I can dig up my old posts where this whole "Do Nothing" conversation came up and make you look even worse for your blatant misquoting and distorting the context. It is up to you. :-) Its ironic because you actually ended up agreeing with me in that exchange, saying that military force wasn't necessary at this time and that sanctions should be our go to option at first. LOL. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Newguy wrote: "One person who described the panel's deliberations and conclusions characterized American intelligence on Iran as "scandalous," Whay am I not surprised. Yet another nameless face whose information cannot be verified nor checked, which makes this statement virtually worthless. Remember CBS. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Good thing you have facts again to back up such statements. You do a bang up job in supporting your arguments. LOL. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "But the (IAEA) agency has also expressed skepticism about Iran's insistence that its nuclear activities are strictly civilian." So even the IAEA says that it thinks it likely that Iran is attempting to gain nuclear weapons technology/ability...not to mention that most European nations also say the same exact thing. Let me guess GBU, everyones intelligence is faulty and Iran is really just a misunderstood state actor, right? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Nope.... they're going for the full she-bang. They want the bomb and I believe they are going to get it. That was my purpose of posting the article. As the article states, our intel on Iran is terrible, and therefore, we lack the intel necessary to stop them with air strikes (and regime change is obviously not an option). Yes, striking their known facilities could degrade some of their capability, but, without a full picture of Iran's program, we will never know how much residual capability they will be left with. They will most likely have plenty of left over capability to still go nuclear even having lost Bushehr (which isn't suited for bom
 
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MiG4mePLZ    RE:US LACKS INTELLIGENCE ON IRAN   3/11/2005 2:26:13 AM
This is from globalsecurity.org It is a transcript of the ABC nightly news cast: SHOW: WORLD NEWS TONIGHT WITH PETER JENNINGS (06:30 PM ET) - ABC March 9, 2005 Wanted: Intelligence Nuclear Program PETER JENNINGS, ABC NEWS (Off Camera) On the subject of intelligence, "The New York Times" reported this morning that a report on American intelligence about Iran's alleged nuclear weapons capability is inadequate. The Bush administration accuses Iran of pursuing nuclear weapons. Iran says it isn't true. Poor intelligence is a very big issue. So we asked our national security correspondent Martha Raddatz to work on this today. What did you find? MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS (Off Camera) Well, Peter, this report is still in draft form. It's not due out until the end of the month, and no one I talked to had seen it. MARTHA RADDATZ (Voice Over) The "Times" says one source described American intelligence on Iran as "scandalous," given the relative openness of the country. A senior administration official tells ABC News the failure is in human intelligence, spies on the ground. Today, the president would not directly answer questions about the commission report. PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES I think it's very important to, for the United States to continue to work with our friends and allies, which believe that the Iranians want a nuclear weapon. MARTHA RADDATZ (Voice Over) Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said today she had not seen the report, but suggested it would not change her mind. CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE There is enough evidence that there are problems with Iran's civilian nuclear power ambitions. MARTHA RADDATZ (Voice Over) The commission report could have serious consequences for the US. If a presidential commission here is not impressed with intelligence, what are the chances that US allies will be? JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY.ORG Given the intelligence failure that we had with Iraq, I think that the administration is simply not going to be able to convince much of the rest of the world that Iran is working on atomic bombs. MARTHA RADDATZ (Off Camera) The administration is also awaiting a report from the National Intelligence Council, Peter, but if you will recall, the National Intelligence Council was the group that was so certain that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. PETER JENNINGS (Off Camera) Many thanks, Martha. Martha Raddatz at the Pentagon today. PETER JENNINGS (Off Camera) Speaking of Iraq, in Iraq today, progress and the usual violence. The US Said today there are now 2,000 separate reconstruction projects going on. It is, as we've said before, hard to get out in the country and record them. PETER JENNINGS (Voice Over) And here's the day's body count, 15 bodies found south of Baghdad all decapitated. An Iraqi soldier died and 30 American contractors were wounded when a suicide bomber drove a garbage truck near a hotel early this morning. And an American soldier was killed when a small bomb exploded near his patrol. PETER JENNINGS (Off Camera) Still overseas, the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, today disagreed with the US again about the shooting in Baghdad last Friday. An Italian intelligence agent and an Italian journalist was wounded. Actually, the journalist was wounded and the intelligence agent was killed. Mr. Berlusconi said today US forces did know that the Italians were on their way taking her to the airport, which contradicts what the US has said so far. http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2005/050309-nuclear-intell.htm
 
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NewGuy    RE:US LACKS INTELLIGENCE ON IRAN   3/11/2005 2:38:06 AM
I again point out that a single nameless source quoting a very classified paper that no one else can talk about is not a basis to make any sweeping decisions on how much the intelligence community knows about Irans nuclear program/ambitions. I also will point out that European nations already are in sync with the idea that Iran is attempting to gain nuclear weapons technology, the difference with the US is simply what to do about it. We don't have to convince the EU or IAEA anything: they already have shown they are very suspicious of Irans motives in this and have little trust in it. NewGuy
 
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