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Subject: Blackwater Agency expelled from Irak
Bluewings12    9/18/2007 2:39:15 PM
link Comments , thoughts ?.. Cheers .
 
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gf0012-aust       9/19/2007 6:06:14 AM

A puppet state has no say in such matters, obviously.


they may well be expecting them to wind down contracts for handovers.
 
why would you think that they don't have a say when they've got SOFAs in place and have evicted people in the past??
 
as a PMC they are subject to common law - and that means that the iraqis are well within their legal right to arrest anyone who they think is in breech of national laws and declarations.
 
The fact that BW still have people in Iraq seems to indicate that there was a loss in media story translation rather than BW acting like a  21st Cent version of the East India Company.
 
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schwifty       9/19/2007 10:09:55 AM



A puppet state has no say in such matters, obviously.



they may well be expecting them to wind down contracts for handovers.

 

why would you think that they don't have a say when they've got SOFAs in place and have evicted people in the past??

 

as a PMC they are subject to common law - and that means that the iraqis are well within their legal right to arrest anyone who they think is in breech of national laws and declarations.

 

The fact that BW still have people in Iraq seems to indicate that there was a loss in media story translation rather than BW acting like a  21st Cent version of the East India Company.



They are less than a puppet; to be a puppet you have to at least be exercising
some coherent power, even if it is only as a proxy for your puppet master. As for contractors being subject to any law, it would appear that CPA order 17 has not expired in practice.
 
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ArtyEngineer       9/19/2007 8:33:31 PM



Guess what happened in Iraq today......BW were out on their rounds, dispite my dislike for BW and EP, they are not going to leave Iraq because the Iraqi gov told them too....anyone who thinks otherwise is naieve


It's just political grandstanding. The Iraqi government wants to try to assert some authority and show independence, but they ain't winning this one. And they shouldn't want to. Blackwater is still a highly professional bunch, or should say a higher than average soldier professional bunch.


I asked around today who all had experiences with Blackwater whilst over "There".  Wasnt a single positive response regarding their "Professionalism" or ability to abide by any sort of ROE.  I was given numerous instances of where QRFs had to go out and get them out of the Sh!t (Not just BW).  They were very poor at coordinating their movements, wouldnt listten to intel regarding routes NOT to take and had the ability to undo in one fell swoop alot of hard earned trust built up with the local populace. Apparently they were removed from Anbar Provence quite some time ago.  Regarding the highlighted statement.  I believe that to have been true several years ago when they were VERY selective on who they hired on sadly I dont think thats the case these days.
 
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mough       9/19/2007 9:50:06 PM



Guess what happened in Iraq today......BW were out on their rounds, dispite my dislike for BW and EP, they are not going to leave Iraq because the Iraqi gov told them too....anyone who thinks otherwise is naieve


It's just political grandstanding. The Iraqi government wants to try to assert some authority and show independence, but they ain't winning this one. And they shouldn't want to. Blackwater is still a highly professional bunch, or should say a higher than average soldier professional bunch.


Kid don't buy into BW's sales pitch that every guy is an ex- SEAL, or SF or SAS or whatever, those guys are in a minority in BW now, they take anyone, hell BW will charge you a shit load of money to take some of their courses then hire you, no previous experience in anything even medium speed slightly draggy needed...plus BW have something of a dubious history, they like to gun and run at times
 
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mough       9/19/2007 9:56:21 PM
you can't have a PMC company of all HSLD guys when as EP himself has said, you want to be the biggest such organisation in the World, there are not that many guys from top quality units to go around, sure BW will roll out the SEAL's or D-boys when they have a big high profile gig, escorting an ambassedor or whatever, but for day to day gigs, it could be some poor schmuck from Albania or filipinos earning 50 bucks a day to get shot at and when they get hurt it's the whole "thanks dfor coming, we'll see you around sometime" routine, there are a few more discreet and selective companies who are much smaller but of higher quality a couple in the US, and some scattered around Europe
 
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bob the brit       9/19/2007 10:03:53 PM
sounds like mough and blackwater are best of friends
anyway, i thought blackwater was one of the nicknames for the shakies' selection (am i wrong?)
 
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gf0012-aust       9/20/2007 8:24:02 AM

It seems to me that Iraq is actually exercising proper due diligence and is exercising all its rights as a sovereign entity?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iraqi Government says US Security Firm Suspended, Not Expelled


(Source: Voice of America news; issued Sept. 19, 2007)

BAGHDAD --- Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki says the company that provides bodyguards to U.S. diplomats in Iraq has been suspended while the government investigates a deadly shooting incident involving the firm last Sunday. The government said earlier it was expelling the private security firm.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki says his country will not tolerate the cold-blooded killing of its citizens.

Iraq's Interior Ministry has suspended the license of security company Blackwater, and has said it is reviewing all security companies working in the country.

Mr. Maliki says Sunday's shooting is the seventh troubling incident involving Blackwater, which provides armed escorts for U.S. government civilian employees in Iraq.

A U.S. embassy official, Mirembe Natongo, has urged journalists and others to wait until an investigation is complete before drawing conclusions. "Both the Iraqi government and the American government are working closely in this incident, and also to address the security companies that work in Iraq. Again the United States expresses its deep condolences, for the casualties," Natongo said.

Iraqi officials have said at least 11 people died after Blackwater guards began shooting in a busy part of Baghdad.

A news report in The New York Times says a preliminary Interior Ministry investigation found Blackwater guards fired at a car that ignored a police order to stop, killing two adults and an infant.

The company has a different version of events, saying there was an attack on the convoy it was protecting and Blackwater guards responded in a lawful and appropriate fashion.

Meanwhile, U.S. diplomats and civilian officials are not supposed to travel by land out of Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone. Natongo says the travel restrictions are hurting some U.S. programs and will be reviewed frequently to see if they are still necessary. (ends)

US, Iraq, Set Up Panel to Examine Role of Security Contractors

(Source: Voice of America news; issued Sept. 19, 2007)

STATE DEPARTMENT --- The U.S. and Iraqi governments are setting up a joint commission to examine the controversial role of private security companies operating in Iraq. The action follows a lethal incident Sunday involving the American security contractor Blackwater USA.

Officials here say the joint commission will not investigate the Sunday shooting incident, which is already the subject of parallel U.S. and Iraqi inquiries. But they say the panel will use any findings of those probes to try to develop new policies to govern the military contractors, who have been frequently accused of acting with impunity in their roles in Iraq which include protecting U.S. diplomats.

At least 11 Iraqis were killed Sunday in the incident involving Blackwater contractors protecting a U.S. diplomatic convoy moving through a Baghdad neighborhood outside the fortified international zone.

Iraqi officials say the Blackwater guards fired indiscriminately after mortar rounds fell near th
 
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GOP       9/20/2007 11:46:32 AM







Guess what happened in Iraq today......BW were out on their rounds, dispite my dislike for BW and EP, they are not going to leave Iraq because the Iraqi gov told them too....anyone who thinks otherwise is naieve



It's just political grandstanding. The Iraqi government wants to try to assert some authority and show independence, but they ain't winning this one. And they shouldn't want to. Blackwater is still a highly professional bunch, or should say a higher than average soldier professional bunch.




Kid don't buy into BW's sales pitch that every guy is an ex- SEAL, or SF or SAS or whatever, those guys are in a minority in BW now, they take anyone, hell BW will charge you a shit load of money to take some of their courses then hire you, no previous experience in anything even medium speed slightly draggy needed...plus BW have something of a dubious history, they like to gun and run at times

If you read their website or anything in most books/magazines, it will basically build them up as almost an all exclusive ex-SOF force. However, I have heard that these large PMC's like to hire fijin's (sp?) and such because of their low cost and "warrior culture" background. So these guys hire people who take their courses? That seems sort of unprofessional, as these courses aren't what I'd consider proper training for such a task as a Iraq deployment.
 
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olive-greens       9/20/2007 1:34:56 PM


If you read their website or anything in most books/magazines, it will basically build them up as almost an all exclusive ex-SOF force. However, I have heard that these large PMC's like to hire fijin's (sp?) and such because of their low cost and "warrior culture" background. So these guys hire people who take their courses? That seems sort of unprofessional, as these courses aren't what I'd consider proper training for such a task as a Iraq deployment.

Yup, lots of Fijians in the PMC market. Fijians also end up a lot in Australian and British Armies. Their country is screwed up, largely by their own efforts in marginalizing the most economically productive people in their country, so it is not lkely to object wherever they end up. Being a Commonwealth nation of small size, UK and Oz are their natural fall-back option. From there, it is where ever the wild geese fly. There are also fake "Gurkhas" - usually random Nepalese or North-East Indian or Burmese. They are not even remotely related to the Gurkha clans, but for profit driven MNCs they sure look like one and that is okay. There are no NCOs and third/fourth generation British or Indian officers of the Gurkha regiments to distinguish one from another. So its all cool. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some Chinese guys with a nice tan serving as Gurkhas as well

 
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gf0012-aust       9/20/2007 2:54:29 PM
PMC, Paramilitary and UN Policing is the largest single revenue raiser for the Fijian Govt (via direct revenue + taxes)
 
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