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Subject: The Troopie
Yimmy    1/19/2007 7:12:01 PM
I watched that film about Amin the other day, "The Last King of Scottland". Not a very good film really, directed by a Scott, and fairly anti-English (even the main character in ral life was English I believe).

In any case, I got side tracked into reading the last edition of the Cheetah, the Rhodesian Light Infantries magazine, and was wondering where The Troopie sands today, since being removed? Or indeed if it stands anywhere?
 
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longrifle       1/19/2007 7:23:03 PM
This is an exerpt from a wikipedia article on the Rhodesian Light Infantry:

"Following majority rule, the regiment was disbanded on 1 November 1980. A nucleus of former R.L.I. personnel remained to train and form the First Zimbabwe Commando Battalion of the Zimbabwe National Army. The regimental statue, "The Troopie", was spirited out of Zimbabwe to South Africa, and is now held at the British Empire and Commonwealth Museum in Bristol, United Kingdom."

Call and confirm it and let us know, huh?



 
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Yimmy       1/19/2007 7:42:35 PM

This is an exerpt from a wikipedia article on the Rhodesian Light Infantry:

"Following majority rule, the regiment was disbanded on 1 November 1980.
A nucleus of former R.L.I. personnel remained to train and form the
First Zimbabwe
Commando Battalion of the Zimbabwe National Army. The regimental statue, "The Troopie", was spirited out of Zimbabwe to South Africa, and is now held at the British Empire and Commonwealth Museum in Bristol, United Kingdom."

Call and confirm it and let us know, huh?





I drive past Bristol when I drive to London now and then, so I'll pop in and take a pic if it is.
 
 
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Yimmy       1/30/2007 7:02:09 PM
Just on the off chance anyone is interested.  This is the Troopie in its current state at Bristol museum.
 
I didn't take these photos.
 
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Yimmy       1/30/2007 8:06:09 PM
 
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longrifle       1/31/2007 12:06:55 PM
I'm glad they got it out of Rhodesia.  I knew the Rhodesians sometimes wore shorts and sneakers in the field, especially the Selous Scouts on tracking operations.  I wonder if any of the RLI actually jumped on a fire force op  dressed like that?

I just recently ordered Fire Force by Chris Cocks from Amazon.  I'm really looking forward to it's arrival!

 
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Yimmy       2/1/2007 1:58:58 PM
Yeah I had Fireforce on my amazon wish list, I should get round to buying it some time.
 
I should like to do my final year dissertation on Rhodesia if I can.
 
 
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longrifle       2/10/2007 10:51:17 PM
I just finished Fireforce.  It's a good book and well worth the read.

I was a little surprised by a few things. I guess I had an image of the RLI as being something akin to quiet professionals, like more advanced special operations forces. Professionals yes, quiet no; they were mostly in their late teens or early twenties and seem to have been quite the bunch of rowdies. Not the same culture as you might find in something like U.S. Special Forces, where almost everyone is around thirty or so.

I was also surprised by the widespread use of marijuana among the RLI troopers. I served in the Regan era when the urinalysis was a common thing and the troops who liked weed were being thrown out. The author makes it sound like the first thing the RLI troopers did after an operation was light a joint.  In hindsight I shouldn't have been surprised, since it was the '70s and entry level military organizations tend to be a reflection of the society they're drawn from.
 
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Yimmy       2/21/2007 7:23:13 AM
I'll have to pick up the book sometime, thanks for the review.
 
I am a little surprised they used marijuana to that extent, as it isn't exactly a sign of professionals, but like you said, it was the 70's.
 
I am not surprised about the young age and their being rowdy.  The RLI was formed as light infantry after all, while the Commando tag was added later, as was the parchute training, almost as an after thought.
 
The RLI being a one battalion regiment, with smallish companies, does give an image of being elite through small numbers.  However, as best I remember they were actually the only white infantry regiment of Rhodesia, and so although good infantry by any standard, were not elite per se.  I believe the other elements of the Rhoesian army were armoured based, or the black infantry (Rhodesian Rifles?), and of course the Sealous Scouts, and Rhodesian SAS.
 
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Yimmy       2/26/2007 4:03:25 PM
If your interested Longrifle, the author of Fireforce, Chris Cocks, has another book due to be published 31st May 2007, according to amazon.co.uk, called "The Saints: The Rhodesian Light Infantry".
 
"Synopsis
The 15-year Rhodesian 'bush war', fought in southern Africa, reached its bloody climax in late 1979 and soon after Rhodesia became Zimbabwe. The men of the Rhodesian Light Infantry had won all their battles, but the war was lost so too their country and the battle-weary veterans drifted away. Along with the RLI diaspora, many of the regimental records and artefacts disappeared. With limited resources to hand, author's daunting challenge has been to compile a comprehensive regimental history, and in this he has been admirably assisted by RLI veterans, military historians, collectors and enthusiasts the world over. A worldwide appeal saw a wealth of previously unpublished material - significant anecdotal and historical contributions, personal writings and over 5,000 photos - being generously contributed to this remarkable endeavour."
 
 h*tp://www.amazon.co.uk/Saints-Rhodesian-infantry-Chris-Cocks/dp/1920143076/sr=1-3/qid=1172522688/ref=sr_1_3/203-8437050-7416706?ie=UTF8&s=books
 
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Yimmy       3/6/2007 2:51:20 PM
I am reading Fireforce now, and think it a good read, but....
 
 
Jesus F****** Christ!  George Galloway was in the RLI?!
 
Please tell me I am mistaken?  There is a photo in the book of a "George Galloway", which looks like a young George Galloway MP, and a quick google search found a reference of such on Arrse.
 
I didn't see that coming....
 
 
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Yimmy       9/29/2007 7:03:37 PM
If anyone is interested, I recently located for myself the book, "The Saints", which I previously mentioned, and I would well recommend it for anyone with an interest in the RLI.  It covers just about everything.

Although it costs an arm and a leg, it also comes with a 90 minute DVD, which is anything but a dry and boring documentary, in that it includes a large amount of combat footage et al.

 
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longrifle       9/29/2007 10:25:55 PM
Yimmy,

Maybe you can clear something up for me? 

IIRC, Fireforce stated that the commandos were units of about 100 men and the troops were about 30 men.  The internal organization of the troop was never made clear, beyond the statement that the troop was broken down into four man sticks instead of sections/squads.

That would seem to put a troop at around seven sticks.  That seems like a big span of control for the troop leader.  Does The Saints shed a little more light on troop organization?

 
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Yimmy       9/30/2007 11:28:45 AM
I have only skim read the book briefly, and don't have an exact answer I am afraid.   The book does mention battalion organisation, and how it changed over the course (such as Support Cmdo breaking from Base Group and the changes in support troops, and the removing of Training Troop from 2 Cmdo and into Base Group etc), but information on the individual Troops is more broken into the main text history rather than having its own section.

The RLI was originally basically line infantry remember, and trained for conventional warfighting before the Cmdo transition occurred, and so I would assume the platoon organisation would be a near identical copy of the British / Commonwealth formation.  With the Cmdo transition and the introduction of Fireforce using the Allouette helicopters, unit sticks had to be reduced to maximum of 5 men as by the carrying capacity of the helicopter.  I don't know how/if this later changed with the introduction of the Huey.

In general, I think a chronic under-manning and shortage of helicopters prevented having too many sticks from being a problem.   Even when the Dakotas were pressed into service, they only dropped around 12-15 men, and so three sticks for the TC to look after and control.

Perhaps more to the point, the TC would often be in one of the K-Cars supervising the war on the ground from 800 feet above, while the sticks were largely engaged in a "Corporals War", whereby they acted largely with autonomy under the stick leader, with information of where their fellow sticks were located and their own grounds of exploitation.

 
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jack    GeorgeMckellarGalloway   8/10/2008 4:20:36 AM
Dear Yimmy,
I have known Geoege Galloway BCR (not MP) Since 1974 or thereabouts . he was my stick leader in BCoy 2RR Fire force group.He then joined me in I RLI around 1976 where we both became stick leaders. Oh, and by the way, BCR stands for Bronze Cross of Rhodesia. George was ALWAYS one of the best. A true leader (by example) Trust me , you must be thinking of someone else or you must be joking about some MP??? excuse my ignorance.
As for this misconception of Marijuana and the common usage within the RLI.. Horse shit I say. I wont deny that the guys had a smoke or two during R&R.Some even had a joint at night around the fire. Some equals between 2 and 8% of any Commando.
Based at a particular JOC. The work started when the Choppers could respond to sightings or incidents calling for back-up by SS & SAS mostly. I can assure you. To the best of my knowledge, that there was mo time nor inclination for the use of "African Tobacco". Whilst there was work to be done. Just call it discipline. Straight up!!!
As for "the rowdy" & the RLI  being rowdy? They worked 42 days in the bush and 8 days or less back at the unit. The town of Salisbury was small and few places to meet the mates, the only ones we had, we lived in the bush and fought with and watched our seventeen year old friends and some watched their twin brothers dying in front of them whilst continuing with the scene at hand. COLD FACT. It happened and they were six meters apart "Greater Love hath no man than he that lays down his life for his Friend / Brother"   If  there was a bit of a noise or rowdy behavior in town it was unintentional and I believe we deserved it. I know the civilians still loved them. "Greater Love hath no man than he that lays down his life for his friend".  This behavior was also quite common and accepted in Bulawayo where the 2nd Battalion were on the same 42/-8 days programme. There were very few civvies in the Country of Rhodesia. Everyone volunteered or got called up to a National Service of  upto two years. At The Age Of Seventeen!!! Rowdy was commonly associated with some song around at that time. "THE  BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN". ( Thin Lizzie).The restaurants and clubs all knew when the boys were back in town and there were no real problems. Remember, the average age of the guys were nineteen . Some never even had the time to go home during R&R.  Most had just left School so eager to be part of the war. Some died on their first call out on the first day. 1of 42. FACT. And thats the little that I know. What about the rest of the RLI.,The Commandos, Base Group, Everyone and I mean everyone was out there seeing the same thing with the same stories to tell. And they all wanted to be there. Even more!! Call it what you like. Call it Rhodesia
As for some other Special Forces people being more reserved  and quiet. Sure that is a fact but they were the "makonyas".
Old soldiers who went on to specialised groups. They had already done and seen it all and they were obviously less in number. However, when there was a reunion, planned or not. Then you could TASTE the word ROWDY  and the civvies and facility owners new  that something special was happening. " Leave them Alone". I once heard someone say."Those Are Our Boys" Rhodesia was at war with the world. Maybe Zimbabwe is a better place to live now and less rowdy now that they have so called liberated their prosperous country?
 

 
 
 
 
 
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longrifle       8/10/2008 6:38:23 PM
jack,
 
Thanks for that post.  Sorry if I got a wrong impression of the RLI from reading Chris Cocks' book.
 
Your description of the typical trooper sounds alot like the typical US soldier in the Vietnam era.
 
Speaking of.....were most of the Americans in the RLI well thought of by the Rhodesians?
 
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