Hey boy, Greece has 12 S-300 units in Crete and about 40 Patriot Pac 3 units all over Greece.

This is the first line of defence.Then there are Tor-M1,ASRAD,SA-8 and a lot more medium range units are not that effective against JDAMs but are capable...

 

Also remember that Greece is about to get AAW ships with Aster 30 and if developed in time Aster 45 missiles,both of them have anti-ballistic capabilities.

 

All in all,i am not saying that we are such a powerful army like Turkey but remember we are 6-7 times less in population...

You knowledge of history is limited at best, so lets start pointing out the obvious shall we?

The first crusade where made because of the muslim attacking christian, racketing them to get in their church, pray or just the right to move around a muslim country, they called on different kings and some answered the call, bottom line was we whipped the floor with your asses and your asses is still sore about this cause you never were able to take your revenge, last time you tried (WWI) you were (once again) beated down badly, now you mention algeria, where did you saw a genocide commited over there? Its cool if you are biased but please don't take your fantasm for reality anyone with the minimum education will just tell you that.

The fun part: turkey in europe, nobody want it and you will never get in period and it's not a US president that will change anything about that fact.

Back to the topic, if turkey ever think about attacking an allied country, turkey will be ashes before their planes reach anything in Greece, that's not fantasy but reality and if it's not a direct engagement we always can provide them with anything they might need ... oh and I almost forgot the F35 you are right its the invisible man, cause no one saw the production model fly, only prototypes, so yeah i agree its so invisible that even on paper we can't see it.

Don't choke just swallow like someone teached you.

The point is why Turkey wants to capture Greek soil?

Imia,Agathonisi,Farmakonisi is Greek,Aegean sea is Greek!

Both countries spend billions of dolar for missiles,ships,tanks,aircrafts why?

You violate the Athens FIR every day with either armed or non-armed F16s why?

You dont want to accept that Greece can legally extend its national waters from 6 to 12 nautical miles and Greek airspace from 10 to 12 nautical miles.

You have violated tens of treaties and conventions.

 

Dear Bong_McDoogle87,

 

You did not get my point:

 

1-Yes Christians killed too, and it's NOT ok that they do so.

2-I did NOT say Greece is stronger.  I just said it is a raising power with opportunities.

 

My whole point is to never neglect the alliances in comparing powers.  Power is not solely militarily.  Let me clarify my points please.

 

The most important aspect when comparing the powers of two countries is to take into consideration their alliances.  There is no war in recent history that is just between two countries, even if it is only two armies that are fighting.  Any comparison that does not put this as the foremost factor is unrealistic.  Examples are plenty in recent history.  Iran was stronger than Iraq and occuppied part of it; however, with the support of America, Iraq could repel the Iranians and occupy some of their lands.  Taiwan is clearly weaker than China, but because the former is supported by America, he can defend himself against China.  The Libyan army is 1000x stronger than the revolters, but because the latters are allied with the NATO, they are winning and even capturing arms from the army :)  Examples are so many.

 

Turkey was stronger than Greece in the latter 30-40 years (or maybe more).  But how can you neglect that this superior strength was BECAUSE of her alliance with America while Greece was on the side of Russia during the cold war?  To see things right, assume reversed alliances.  Few years ago, Turkey got some 100 F35 from America and Greece got some 100 EuroFighter from EU.  EuroFighter is stronger than F35 which is a message to Turkey that the EU aims at keeping balance and stop the conflict.

 

The number of soldiers that you mentioned plays the least role in wars. Good fighters and technology determine the winner.  A good example is Israel and the Arab world.  Israel's population today is about 5M and the Arabs 300M.  I believe Israel is stronger than all the Arab armies and Iran.  (I mean if Israel is on the defensive side.)

 

If we put alliances aside, and if we assume both sides can get watever non-nuke arms, then we can say that the most important factors that determine who wins a non-nuke war are the following:

 

1-Strong soldiers (be special forces or strong pilots).

2-Expertise.

3-Controlling the air, and conversely AA's.

4-Artillery

5-Economy.

 

The main weakness of Greece is in the first two.  It lacks strong soldiers for two reasons: (1) Lack of expertise, and (2) reliance almost solely on technology.  The Turkish army is mainly stronger in her expertise and will to go for wars.  For instance, both Turkey and Greece have good airfighters, but Turkey has stronger and more expert pilots, and the Turkish army has more expertise.

 

However, keep in mind that this analysis is true only if we neglect the alliances.  Wars are no longer just between two armies, but between alliances. 

 

That's why i said Turkey is somewhat isolated.  I don't mean it has no relations with Europe.  Turkey didn't join the EU, and its alliance with America and Israel has been shaking since Ardogan came to power.  Also, Turkey couldn't enter the Arab world (because of Iran).  Greece is now part of the EU which is something you are trying to degrade its importance!  The EU is a union of countries that goes beyond simply exchanging goods.  Any war on any country of the EU is a war on the EU.  When the EU sent EuroFighters for Greece, they also sent through them a stronger message to Turkey that Greece is no longer alone, and that's why the confrontations between the two stopped some years ago.

 

Again, if we ignore alliances, Turkey may be able to invade some of Greece's islands today, and maybe some its main lands too.  However, such an analysis is far from reality as it ignores alliances.  If America or the EU send some stronger arms to any of the two, they can determine who would win.

 

Concerning what I said about Turkey killing Christians and your reply that Christians killed too, especially the French killed Algerians.  Please note I do NOT advocate any kind of genocides. Also note that yes Christians killed too, and I do not deny or support this.  However, there is something you should not ignore either.  The French did not kill the Algerians because they are Muslims, but rat

I believe the world powers are something like this list.

 

US and EU wants to keep the tension in low levels but not to low,because in that way their companies wont earn enough from arms dealing.

Remember how Turkey did get the Perry class frigates,they got it because at that time we had 10 kortenaers,Adams etc...

Now that Turkey will have Korean tanks (Altay) made in Turkey US is about to send for free 400 M1A1 Abrams,Bradleys etc to Greece.

If Turkey deploys high tech tanks in Cyprus Leos or Altay, US and EU will allow Greece to deploy high tech tanks to Cyprus Leos or Abrams.

 

All in all,Turkey may be a rising power but Greece is doing quite good (if u keep in mind the economic problems).

 

There are plans in the following years will be reality:

ALS-100 corvette

HSC-1 Makedon (Hellenic Stand-Off cruise)

etc

 

2-I did NOT say Greece is stronger.  I just said it is a raising power with opportunities.

 

My whole point is to never neglect the alliances in comparing powers.  Power is not solely militarily.  Let me clarify my points please.

 

The most important aspect when comparing the powers of two countries is to take into consideration their alliances.  There is no war in recent history that is just between two countries, even if it is only two armies that are fighting.  Any comparison that does not put this as the foremost factor is unrealistic.  Examples are plenty in recent history.  Iran was stronger than Iraq and occuppied part of it; however, with the support of America, Iraq could repel the Iranians and occupy some of their lands.  Taiwan is clearly weaker than China, but because the former is supported by America, he can defend himself against China.  The Libyan army is 1000x stronger than the revolters, but because the latters are allied with the NATO, they are winning and even capturing arms from the army :)  Examples are so many.

 

Turkey was stronger than Greece in the latter 30-40 years (or maybe more).  But how can you neglect that this superior strength was BECAUSE of her alliance with America while Greece was on the side of Russia during the cold war?  To see things right, assume reversed alliances.  Few years ago, Turkey got some 100 F35 from America and Greece got some 100 EuroFighter from EU.  EuroFighter is stronger than F35 which is a message to Turkey that the EU aims at keeping balance and stop the conflict.

 

The number of soldiers that you mentioned plays the least role in wars. Good fighters and technology determine the winner.  A good example is Israel and the Arab world.  Israel's population today is about 5M and the Arabs 300M.  I believe Israel is stronger than all the Arab armies and Iran.  (I mean if Israel is on the defensive side.)

 

If we put alliances aside, and if we assume both sides can get watever non-nuke arms, then we can say that the most important factors that determine who wins a non-nuke war are the following:

 

1-Strong soldiers (be special forces or strong pilots).

2-Expertise.

3-Controlling the air, and conversely AA's.

4-Artillery

5-Economy.

 

The main weakness of Greece is in the first two.  It lacks strong soldiers for two reasons: (1) Lack of expertise, and (2) reliance almost solely on technology.  The Turkish army is mainly stronger in her expertise and will to go for wars.  For instance, both Turkey and Greece have good airfighters, but Turkey has stronger and more expert pilots, and the Turkish army has more expertise.

 

However, keep in mind that this analysis is true only if we neglect the alliances.  Wars are no longer just between two armies, but between alliances. 

 

That's why i said Turkey is somewhat isolated.  I don't mean it has no relations with Europe.  Turkey didn't join the EU, and its alliance with America and Israel has been shaking since Ardogan came to power.  Also, Turkey couldn't enter the Arab world (because of Iran).  Greece is now part of the EU which is something you are trying to degrade its importance!  The EU is a union of countries that goes beyond simply exchanging goods.  Any war on any country of the EU is a war on the EU.  When the EU sent EuroFighters for Greece, they also sent through them a stronger message to Turkey that Greece is no longer alone, and that's why the confrontations between the two stopped some years ago.

 

Again, if we ignore alliances, Turkey may be able to invade some of Greece's islands today, and maybe some its main lands too.  However, such an analysis is far from reality as it ignores alliances.  If America or the EU send some stronger arms to any of the two, they can determine who would win.

 

Concerning what I said about Turkey killing Christians and your reply that Christians killed too, especially the French killed Algerians.  Please note I do NOT advocate any kind of genocides. Also note that yes Christians killed too, and I do not deny or support this.  However, there is something you should not ignore either.  The French did not kill the Algerians because they are Muslims, but rat

The Grek warriors in ww2 against italy-albania-germany and did very well after they flew to the sea italians nd albanians

and delayed the germans woukd lead to better organization of soviet and beyond....
Αlso remind the Greeks in 1918 goin deep in turkay,until Ancara!

What the turks do?fight against poor and small cyprus and the unarmed kyrds!
In 1987-88  turks as usual afraid.....Τhey came one step from the destructions.....

Τhe Greek admiral begged to give him the green light to attack the turkis flee....was so advantageous a positions.

in a few hours turkish navy had lost the 2/3......but the politicans say no,so sad!
And the most serious?With Greeks always the brothers Serbs,good neighboring Bulgaria,Kurds (more than 10.000.000

in turkay)and some millions of Armenians.....Turks know well this....and just barking......and barking dog does not bite...

 

 

 

The Grek warriors in ww2 against italy-albania-germany and did very well after they flew to the sea italians nd albanians

and delayed the germans woukd lead to better organization of soviet and beyond....
Αlso remind the Greeks in 1918 goin deep in turkay,until Ancara!

What the turks do?fight against poor and small cyprus and the unarmed kyrds!
In 1987-88  turks as usual afraid.....Τhey came one step from the destructions.....

Τhe Greek admiral begged to give him the green light to attack the turkis flee....was so advantageous a positions.

in a few hours turkish navy had lost the 2/3......but the politicans say no,so sad!
And the most serious?With Greeks always the brothers Serbs,good neighboring Bulgaria,Kurds (more than 10.000.000

in turkay)and some millions of Armenians.....Turks know well this....and just barking......and barking dog does not bite...