Just browsing through this thread and wondering if anyone has considered the wider influences of a conflict between these two nations. Both countries have many expats living abroad in many countries, what is the reaction from these likely to be?

 

Melbourne has large populations of both, indeed the largest population of greeks outside of greece lives here for some reason. Would there be fighting between expat communities. A conflict between their armed forces might not last long but I would bet their respective overseas populations would carry on the fight.

Well first of all, its never going to happen! Greece is part of the EU and if Greece goes to war, other countries will follow. Also, if both countries go to war, it will set both countries back. Turkey and Greece would be in trouble if that happens. Secondly, On paper, Turkey would would most likely win becasue of the poplulation gap, however, dont forget, out of the 70 million population, about 30 or so are kurds, and i hear that the turks and kurds are not the best of friends. Thirdly , Militarly, Turkey by far has a larger army but greece has one of the best airforce in the balkan area and by far the best Navy. I dont think Turkey is  stronger in that department. Fourthly, Greece economicaly, is better off than Turkey, Although in recent years, turkey is improving there economy, Turkey still lags behind  greece in many aspects such as economy, reale-estate, tourism, and other things as well. I know Turkey wants to be part of the EU, but greece and a few other countries in Europe are against that turkey entering the EU. Turkey has issues to confront first before being considered in the EU. like giving back CYPRUS to the Cyprians. Fifth, Weapenry , both countries spend billions of dollars in missle defense, fighters, etc

 

Lets put it this way, Both Athens and Istanbul will be destroyed of they both go to war.

Everybody thought that U.S will suffer a low casualty rate against the war in iraq, well were kinda wrong, u think?

 

IN WAR NOBODY WINS!

 

^You're pretty right in many points....but do not underestimate Turkish air force...I doN't want to sounds subjective but Turkish pilots are also among succesfull ones among NATO.

Greek navy is better but not waay better. The gap between is not as large as it's thought. The thing is, Greek defence system is much better....screw war. Peace between Greece-Turkey ftw...after all we can't be that different(except fo religion) after all thoese yaers we've lived together.

 

 

 

 

The land conflict now will take place in either Thrace or in the islands.

 

And think simply this. The turkish mountain forces are stationed in east turkey in order to keep away PKK from raiding or driving the local Kurdish population in a revolt. And consider that despite their efforts the PKK is still very alive. Even the recent major turkish operations with infiltraion as far as Iraq, resulted in the death of a dozen of PKK fighters and nothing more, there are still there.

The truth is that a possible conflict will be judged in the AIR. If your airforce is reduced to ashes and you have the enemy pounding you from the air, you stand no chance of winning in Thrace or Aegean.

Achieving airsuperiority is the first objective of both sides.

Greece is a EU member and Turkey searches for integration in some economic/political association.

 

Turkey undergoes slowly reforms and i believe in a decade or so will be a better country for the turks. For lets face it, Turkey today is not a democracy with the european or north american sense. If you need elaboration on that plz ask.

 

If any war like this happens without intervention of other countries and lasts till end, there would be no country named Greece in the world map anymore. Numbers always matter;

 

Turkey has,

10 times more manpower

35 times more money in reserves

50 times more oil reserves

5 times more labor power ( to  compensate war losses)

 

minor military advantages on different aspects for both sides

 

 But in real life there can't be a war like this  due to lots of factors, and even if there would be it couldn't last till end without intervention of 3rd parties.

 

I am neither Greek or Turk.

 

 

The question is:  Which country is least worse.?

 

Well were talking about if they ever DO go to war

which i highly doubt

Turkey and Greece arent much of rivals anymore

lol, hell there's Greek soldiers in Izmir Turkey right now

if you dont believe me

write "Operation Destined Glory"

its a military exercise type thing with both Turks and Greeks

plus we wouldnt dare attack Greece, not cause of their Forces

because were trying to get into the European Union

they dont want Turkey

why?

cause were muslim?

haha, if thats the reason then i dont want to be in the European Union

cause that would be very stupid of europeans to judge us like that...

but back to the rivalry

Greece has a better Navy

wait.. a much better navy, they're experienced and everyone knows that

but then the greeks would have to admit that we can whoop them on land

because we have experience with this whole PKK deal going on

Air, would be a problem cause both Turkey and Greece have very good Air Forces

personally i like the mock dogfights

it just goes to show that were not interested in killing eachother

but rather showing our skills with eachother

but i wish we were more than allies with greece

cause put both nations together... and you got a problem bigger than russia

there are 5-6 turks for every greek.  weaponry being generally
similar the sheer numbers are likely going to be unstoppable.

i would like to remind you who has one of the best pilots in the world..i dont give a fuck about the numbers..HONOR,DUTY,BRAVERY that counts on the battlefield..Everyday over MY aegean see you used to be fucked...And your mission is to get fucked from us!!!YOU TRY TO FLY OVER US WE FLY OVER YOUR FLAG.......

Whoa chill out....

-how do you know your pilots are superior to your "enemies"?

-We have no honor and bravery of course....we are savages ;)

-When Atatürk retook &&04;zmir they put Greece's flag in front of him for him to walk over it becaue previous Greek commander did that to Turkish flag. Atatürk refused that and said " a flag is a symbol of a nation's freedom and it has to be respected"

This happened after you swam in YOUR Aegean sea.

First of all don't forget:Our pilots are the trainers and you are trainees....Can i ask you something?Could you tell me a valid reason for Cyprous invasion?Please i'm so curious........We came across with very difficult situations and you know that..but still we are here..we had encounter many expansive nations like you but we defended our nation  we were always sucessful..

well it appears to me that your teachers, or whoever informed you about what went on were pretty biased. I've met many Greeks and many were like you though I've also met fella who were kind and well rational enough not believe every shit they heard.

Now I'll try to be as most objective as possible minding that both sides lack it for most of their population.

I've never heard Greek pilots training Turkish pilots but one thing I know is that Turkish pilots actually made pretty good scores on NATO exercises.  We know these fellas dogfight a lot and are pretty experinced...same goes for Greeks pilots. But you konw this is not something genetical it depends on person's skills. So saying we have the best this and that is ridicoulus. But could be true to a certain extend. One thing is obvious, both sides are well experinced and well trained and has good(Greeks has quality, Turks have quantity) inventory. Greeks have block 52+s, we have a large force of 30/40s but well we also have a significant amount of 50s too....or at least upgrading.

 

 

On to the next point.....Cyprus invasion? Well well, doN't worry we didn't invade it for no reason, we didn't had that embergo from west for no reason. We did that because our people there were actually suffering. I've been there and seen what was done. Though I am aware that how Turks reacted to that. And it was violent, I know it. But after all Greek Cypriots started it in 1958 by shooting a Turksih oice officer. Banning anything Turkish from government and changing everything totally to Greek. Haven't you heard of the motto of EOKA? They've clearly stated that the island was going to be washed iwth Turkish blood and cleaned of them.(as well as British)

Greece on the other hand wanted to make Cyprus part of them.......this is actually a very long topic we could argue on but it's not the place I suppose. Just wanted to tell you that it's just not the way you think. IMO one should be able to question what their government tells them.

 

 

And lastly, I don't mean to sound rude but Ottomans conquered and held Greece for 400 years. If you call it succesfully defending I doN't know what to say. Though there were certain attempts to kick Ottomans, it wasnt untill Ottoman empire was on it's way down because of contnious wars and not developing fast enough, as well as religious backwardness Greece had it's independance. One should also take into consideration the help Greeks had from west and Russians.

I'm not saying this to insult Greeks or anything, back then strong ate the weak. It was the rule....Greeks did the same when the had the power(see Alexander, Byzantine)

But you should take into consideration that Ottomans weren't as brutal as you are probably taught. Mind you I got these information from foreign historians as well as some real objective Turkish historians(who are not being liked by the, say nationalist side)

Ottomans by that time's standarts were very tolerant to differnt ethncities and religion in their empire. Yes, non-Muslims weren't treated equal to Christians, but Christians could actually live a pretty good life. In fact it was Christian who could go through dev&&51;irme(some sort of slavery but god I wish to be slave like that) and be a vizier. Or an elite army unit....they could get the best education available with very good amount of money paid and live in the one of that time's greatest city, Constantinople or Konstantinniye as the Ottomans called.

 

 

I do not hate Greeks, I do not hate any kind of people because of their nationality. What matters for me is the personality and one being rational. Now it appears to me that you're not my favorite kind of guy as you actually hate people because of their nationality. Not only that but you clearly base your assumptions on what you heard from very biased sources.

I have to admit not everybody in my country would think the way I do, especally a 17 year old but it all comes down to education IMO....that is what matters.

Oh and I actually respect Greek culture a lot and belvie we have lot in common. Heck Anatolian Turks have a good amount of Greek blood in their veins as well as Armenian and some other Balkan peoples....add Caucasians too.(my grandmother is a Laz, living in the region where once Trebizond Empire was...so she was pretty Pontic actually.

 

 

Peace Hellenic Air Force ;)

OKAY , what would happen if greece and Turkey get into a war???It would be close but ultimatley Greece would win.

 

  I believe that a war on land would lead giant destruction for both countries and would end in a stalemate expecially because of the nationalistic factors and the natural barriers.Basically If Turkey tries to invade Greece thay will lose and if  Greece tries to take over Turkey via land they will lose.The only way there could be territorial gain out of this will be through a treaty because of unbearable destruction of the military, airforce or cities.........And after stating this i think that Greece would win the war and get the better of this treaty...

 

  Popualtion wise Turkey is 70 mil and Greece is 12 mil...BUT 30+ of that population is Kurds who hate Turkey more then Greece , are equipped and have many organizations that fight Turkish soldiers and  attack turkish cities(PKK), and at the first sign of Turkish weakness or war will attack Turkey tuning this into a 2 boarder fight for  Turkey (considering Kurdistan and other former nations taken by turkey  are to the east of the country)Also the Greeks are better epuipped and better trained but this has been declining the last few years and although many have stated that the Turks have alot of german weapons so do the Greeks.  SO this aspect of  a war would most likely go to Greece....

 

  Navy wise Greece has the best navy in the Balkans and a better equipped and stable navy then Turkey, but a giant factor in this would also be the fact that many of the Greek islands are very well militarized and that the islands that were demiliterized  by Nato and UN because of the Imia problem were very close to Turkey and less close to the rest of the Greek islands....So Greece also has a better naval presence in the Aegean....A war via navies and ocean  would result in a Greek win....

 

  The hardest aspect of this war would be a war between air forces...Both countries have GREAT airforces with a very very slight advantage going to Turkey because of the fact that they also have a larger number of  planes actually made by them...But the last agreement between Greece and France included  planes/airforce help....acoupel of months ago with Bush as president the Turkish people  would have had a bigger help form the americans and a more reliable one but this has completely shifted since the election of Barak Obama who not only shares views with the Greeks but with the French as well......

 

 The last years the Turkish airforce has been flying Planes over Greece as an effort to make air space claims and cause fear in their opponents but this has only made things harder for them considering that Greeces air deffence has greatly improved and is MUCH more equipped and advanced considering missile deffence......

 

An airforce battle would end in a stalemate with Greece having cause more damage to major Turkish cities.

 

 

Also someone back there stated that the Turks are very ready to fight and would be more agressive but i think it is very even in this category based on the fact that in the crisis in Imia although Turkey was the agressor in the matter GREECE was the first to put up a flag on the island and bring the navy into it.....

 

The only thing i woudl give the Turks is a victory in Cyprus because of the fact that they have a better established army there....but ultimately the whole island would probably be claimed back by Greece at the end of the war....

 

Also Greece has more allies and suporters and Turkey has more enemies(serbs,bulgarians,cyprians,kurds,armenians etc.) the only real allies being FYROM(who at first move would be  englufed by the rest of the Balkan countries) and Albania (even in WW2 couldnt help Italy take Greece, and would have enought to deal with anger from serbs considering the Kosovo problem.)

 

 

This war would not end in Conquest but a treaty  between the two countries that would favor Greece , but both countries will have EXTREME damages and so owuld the Balkans as a whole with more of an outisde (UN,NATO) influence so in the long run it would cause corruption in both areas.......

This war will not end in anyone conquering anyone but instead in a treaty that wil

greece spends 8bill for 177.000 soldiers and turkey 12 bil for 554.000 soldiers so greece

spend more for each unit.

and havent you ever hear of the hellenic underwater demolition command?

greece spends 3 times more money on each man . ( better equipment )

i think greece will lose but will fight till its last gramar of blood . and turkey will take heavy damage