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Subject: defineing a Great Power
jastayme3    11/5/2006 4:05:41 AM
What are the minimum requirements?
 
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french stratege       11/5/2006 12:07:52 PM
I would say:
-a big state of the art / high tech industrial base both civilian (automotive, aerospace, advanced materials, semiconductors..) and defense
-a broad indigneous state of the art defense base including all design(R&D) and manufacturing of key equipements (air fighters , tank , SSN, SAM...) to equip its own force in full independance and those of allies
-a professional army with state of the art training of officers and NCO especially (you can have draftees but at least an important and very professsional officer and NCO corps)
-good cash reserves
-a good and world wide intelligence agency supplemented by special forces
-space assets in reconnaissance and transmission at least
-huge reserve of fissiles materials and modern atomic weapons with accurate delivery systems for antiforce first strike and second strike ability
- a classical and nuclear deterrence enough to deter in defense the first power unless they cross red line by attacking first or provoke war with it
-secure access to mineral/energy  reserves and war stocks
-a potent army with worlwide projection forces including state of the art well trained silent SSN and amphibious force, a good air force able to project itself, a top C4ISR and a kernel of top very mobile ground army for projection and defense of mainland according to threat at boundaries (able to project and sustain at least an high tech mechanized corps abroad ).
- an influence capacity by diplomacy and medias
I think there is only 4 world power: USA, and well after Russia, France and UK ( which each have roughly only 4 to 5% of US naval power and not more than US 20% air land projection power if they can build up in a remote country).
Japan has everything ready to enter this category in few years and become second world power if they want to.
Germany could become that in a decade (like Italy)
China is only a regional power in Asia but is building to be a world power in 20 years as India.
Considering what USA have, they are alone in their own league and equivalent of what UK and France were in 19th century even by a stronguer relative domination in strenght (but not will).
 
 
 
 
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bizarre       11/5/2006 2:01:48 PM
 
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bizarre       11/5/2006 2:08:37 PM
 
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bizarre       11/5/2006 2:09:34 PM
Don't know why, my mail box doesn't work properly...

minimum requirements :
1- Faith in its superiority (through religious matters, long term policies etc.)
2- Unity of the country
3- Demographic advantage
2- Expansion : economical and technological

In this case there're only few people :
USA, Russia, China, India, Iran

 
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AdamB       11/5/2006 2:46:54 PM
How is Iran a great power?
 
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AdvanceAustralia    mineral/energy reserves   11/5/2006 2:50:11 PM

I would say:

-a big state of the art / high tech industrial base both civilian (automotive, aerospace, advanced materials, semiconductors..) and defense

-a broad indigneous state of the art defense base including all design(R&D) and manufacturing of key equipements (air fighters , tank , SSN, SAM...) to equip its own force in full independance and those of allies

-a professional army with state of the art training of officers and NCO especially (you can have draftees but at least an important and very professsional officer and NCO corps)

-good cash reserves

-a good and world wide intelligence agency supplemented by special forces

-space assets in reconnaissance and transmission at least

-huge reserve of fissiles materials and modern atomic weapons with accurate delivery systems for antiforce first strike and second strike ability

- a classical and nuclear deterrence enough to deter in defense the first power unless they cross red line by attacking first or provoke war with it

-secure access to mineral/energy  reserves and war stocks

-a potent army with worlwide projection forces including state of the art well trained silent SSN and amphibious force, a good air force able to project itself, a top C4ISR and a kernel of top very mobile ground army for projection and defense of mainland according to threat at boundaries (able to project and sustain at least an high tech mechanized corps abroad ).

- an influence capacity by diplomacy and medias

I think there is only 4 world power: USA, and well after Russia, France and UK ( which each have roughly only 4 to 5% of US naval power and not more than US 20% air land projection power if they can build up in a remote country).

Japan has everything ready to enter this category in few years and become second world power if they want to.

Germany could become that in a decade (like Italy)

China is only a regional power in Asia but is building to be a world power in 20 years as India.

Considering what USA have, they are alone in their own league and equivalent of what UK and France were in 19th century even by a stronguer relative domination in strenght (but not will).

 

 FS, I find it curious that you list as a requirement for a  country to be a great power
-"a big state of the art / high tech industrial base both civilian (automotive, aerospace, advanced materials, semiconductors..) and defense
-a broad indigneous state of the art defense base including all design(R&D) and manufacturing of key equipements (air fighters , tank , SSN, SAM...) to equip its own force in full independance and those of allies (my italics),

yet only "secure (my italics) access to mineral/energy  reserves" ie the use of the word secure in this context implying less than full independance of allies.

Anyone, with the right political/ socio-economic infrastructure can obtain a hi-tech base within a few decades but mineral/energy reserves might take a hundred million years. You've either got it or you don't.

You can take France, Japan, Germany, Italy, etc off the list. They've all lost enough wars, due to not having "mineral/energy reserves"  to demonstrate  they do not have what it takes to maintain great power status.

I hope you won't take this personally as my having a dig at our ally France but your list seems to favour your home team.

Cheers.


 
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bizarre       11/5/2006 3:13:38 PM
How is Iran a great power?

Mainly because of my first point.
And even if Iran clashes, another mulsim power would appear

Power isn't a pure military item.
 
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AdvanceAustralia       11/5/2006 3:27:36 PM

How is Iran a great power?


Mainly because of my first point.
And even if Iran clashes, another mulsim power would appear

Power isn't a pure military item.
The original question did not relate to the definition of a power (most nation states can do that), but a great power.

Faith in superiority does not equate to power (we are not discussing Rugby here) and Iran's self-delusion does not in any way equate to superiority.

Cheers.

 
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french stratege       11/5/2006 3:29:49 PM
Power is not only an harware item but without numbers, competencies and industrial civilian and defense base and technology (plus nukes), you can not do anything.
And France or UK are still countries which has ambitions at least at political class level.
 
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jastayme3       11/6/2006 2:02:49 AM

 One must be able to compete on a large scale at a continental or global level with any potential rival and have a reasonable possibility of success(reasonable possibility does not mean probability it means reasonable possibility). It must be impossible to destroy you in an aggressive action without fighting a large campaign.
Pre-1940 France was a Great Power. Vichy France was not as it was comparatively easily destroyed.


 
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