I'm sure there'd be anjother way to fix bases and supply.

 

Unless half the point of this thread is to beat the British in a battle for the Mediterranean and Africa.

interesting points, gf0012. thanks for your comments.
hope things don't get too heated in these debates; your knowledge on naval matters is leagues ahead of mine... so i defer to you on these matters.

yes, the 'arab alliance' does seem a bit fantastic on paper, but in fact, this HAS BEEN the french gov't's intention for the past 30 years or so! they have accepted so many arab immigrants in an attempt to portray france as an arab country and to gain admittance into the arab league. so i am not completely crazy for thinking up such a plan...

who knows... it may work. i believe that a number of arab countries in fact proposed a de facto merging of states in the 70s... why not now? many are anxious to create a counterbalance to the US in the ME.

your comments on syria / turkey are well taken.

the french don't control the Med entry points but they could wreak havoc on any force trying to enter if they wished. i believe one of france's main air bases in close to Marseille.... they could do multiple sorties against any such naval force. obviously, sea traffic would be stopped during the duration of the crisis.

the moroccans et al would not accept french rule; they would enter into a 'confederation' headed by france while the rest of africa would be subjugated in my scenario. obviously, since liberation from france plays such a large part in moroccan / algerian sensibilities, some form of 'collaboration' in an 'arab alliance' would have to be fashioned.

and i believe malta is predominantly roman catholic.... fits nicely with france:)

so this scenario is 'tres catholique' he he

Btw., I don't have anything against France, but I hope French posters will actively self-initiate some soul-searching of their plans on this forum someday.

 

Some good points on French strength seems to have been made as well as a few realistic comrpromises too.

The French take Malta, Part 2

Tony Blair looks carefully at the military match-up between the UK and France. Tony?s serious problem that really unnerves him is that he only has two small carriers now, (he used to be two, but one has been de commissioned) and only one is ready to go to war now, as these old carriers need so much maintenance that one is usually up for repairs at any given time, and they rotate in and out of ?ready? status. Then there?s the dam lack of Blue Vixen radars, which used to give the ?Sea Harriers? some real punch and potential against other planes, but now the famous sea harriers have become so old that they were sold to India. All that the carriers have are the regular harriers, which are really just light ground attack planes.

Damn, Tony thinks, our army is better, our navy is better, our submarines are better, our air force is better, the only thing they can do is put some Raphael?s in a place where we cant go as easily. Were totally stymied by just 30 Raphael?s and one carrier. Tony goes to bed that night and reading a history book that relates how the British navy managed to ready some light carriers just in time for the invasion of the Falklands fighting; and how they made super fast arrangements buy some American missiles for their jets, and he gets an idea.

The next day he gives a speech stating that he chooses to make no comment on the new French policy of invasion. However, the press leeks out ?reliable? information from ?people in the know? that the UK is planning on doing nothing. However, that same day, various phone calls are put in place around the world, including some American senators and weapons making corporations, as well as Spain, Egypt, Israel and British military installations in West Germany.

A few days later the major ports and shipbuilding facilities of the UK report large call backs of workers; and the MOD reports that new shipbuilding programs have been started, in order to further support the war on terror. This is confusing for the Press, as the MOD also states that the English army is scaling down its commitments in Iraq and other parts of the world, in order to reduce the ?cost? of supporting such a large force overseas. Two weeks later, British troops are angry to learn that they will only be getting one, two, or three weeks leave off after their return from overseas (much shorter then usual) and are put quickly back into combat preparations.

For the first 6 weeks, all is quiet, except for the French press, which is alternating between pounding the collective French chests and criticizing America for its poor quality food, and criticizing the actions of the French president. In all the commotion, the French do not realize that a larger then average portions of the Spanish army are put on ?training exercises? just on the Spanish side of the Pyrenees mountains between France and Spain.

But six and a half weeks later a huge UK navel task force leaves port. When news of a major UK navel group traveling south down the Atlantic worries Chirac, but the MOD insists that it is merely a supply and reinforcement group for the UK?s ongoing operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other operations in the Middle East. Chirac doesn?t buy this, because he sees that this battle group is composed of not just one, but in fact two British carriers, as well as the Ocean and other amphibious assault ships, more then the usual number of personal carriers then a standard rotate the troops mission for Iraq, way more destroys then are normally seen together; just what Tony would need to support an invasion. He is even more worried when he finds out that one of the ships is their new one with the super ?Sampson? radar that is not ?supposed? to have been fitted with weapons yet. He calls his navy on high alert, puts the main bulk of the French navy around the Western Mediterranean, and sends an extra 60 tanks and a infantry Brigade to Malta, as well as moving several flights of Raphael?s to what used to be Malta?s international airport, as well as some hastily prepared SAM sites. .

Several days later when the UK task force is set to enter the Mediterranean, the French issue an order that no UK group will be allowed into the Mediterranean unless closely escorted by the French navy. That night at 2 AM the Mod issues an emergency press release stating that there is suddenly intensive fighting in their region of Iraq, and an entire Battalion of men are threatened, and they are sending extra RAF fighters their to support them. French Radar detect several groups RAF jets, including the Euro fighter as well as other jets leave UK and divide into several groups, some traveling south to Spain (carefully avoiding French airspace) and other going over Denmark and into Germany. There, they land and refuel, and then take off again, but this time not heading towards Iraq but towards Malta and the French navy in the Western Mediterranean. The French air force scramble most of their air force over the Mediterranean.

Just by the time daylight is beginning to hit the water and the RAF arrives the to find the Mediterranean buzzing with activity. Old British SEPECAT jaguars which have been recently pulled from storage and refurbished with the help of technical assistance of Boeing and Lockheed martin, (nothing special, but able to fly and drop bombs again,) fly along with Tornadoes and other planes (escorted by a Euro fighters) fly in from Germany straight toward Malta and attack air and ground targets. The other half, the group of just Euro fighters that flew in from Spain; fly not towards Malta but towards the French navy armadas and the French air force circling above them.

But the fist shot of the battle are not fired in the air, but under the water. The British and French subs have been playing a dangerous cat and mouse game, a game the British mostly won. The first official act of war is a British Torpedo sent against a French destroyer. The UK subs (sent out much earlier) were told that unrestricted warfare was to begin at exactly 5:14, and the RAF was organized enough to ensure that their planes arrived on the scene at exactly 5:20. In the ensuing battle underwater, the UK loses more then half of its sub fleet, but the French loose more then half of their subs, and the French navy is very heavily damaged.

By the time the air battle starts, a few French ships are already taking in water. The air battle is just as fierce and brutal, with very heavy losses on both sides, but the British come out ahead in this one as well. The entire RAF is cut in half in one day, but the French air force still ends up taking a bit worse hits, and the French navy is further damaged. The Malta invasion force (the Jaguars, tornadoes and euro fighters that refueled in Germany) are also cut in half, but the Raphael flights there more then half destroyed, and several ground targets are hit, including the air port, and the main French supply depot.

At the end of the day, the CdG is heavily damaged, to damaged in fact to support flight operations, and Malta?s defenses are severely dented. The remainder of the RAF flies on to airports not just in Spain and Germany, but also to Israel and Egypt; where supplies have been pre-positioned for them.

The next day, as the UK invasion force is attacked by rockets and flights of jets from France, some of them are intercepted by British Euro fighter scrambling from Spain, some are not. The ones that are not intercepted discover that the Sampson radar on the new British cruiser really is as good as they say that it is, and that weapons have been hastily added on to it. Also, they discover that the British Harriers have had AESA radars installed fresh from America, and that their radar read is significantly better then the radar on the Raphael. The day after that, the British invasion force reaches Malta having taken significant but not critical damage.

Chirac calls up the Spanish ambassador and informs him that he considers allowing UK planes to use their airbases an act of war; when the Spanish ambassador informs circa that when you factor in the recent purchases of Leopard tanks from Germany, and French sending so many of their tanks to Malta and Africa, the Spanish have a clear numerical superiority in armored vehicles on the continent right now.

The invasion is bloody, and the British are not able to bring quite as many tanks or troops as France has pre positioned there. But, the UK navy is has clear dominance over the French navy, and the Sea harriers and the other RAF squadrons stationed around Europe and the Mediterranean are able to (most of the time) keep them clear of the French air force; so for a few days the British navy and RAF pound the French army on Malta.

When the invasion does come, the amphibious assault is supplemented by the British parachute unit, which makes the first all out combat para-jump in years. Two weeks later, with both sides losing more then half of their force, British army comes out slowly winning. The French learn that the English have been working on refurbishing her third carrier (which was ?decommissioned? before), along with organizing a second transport armada to send more troops to Malta for that last final push, sees she cannot reinforce her army on Malta, surrenders.

In the end, The French navy is almost completely destroyed; the sub force of both navies almost completely destroyed (not quite so bad for the English, but still bad) and the air forces of both nations are almost completely destroyed.

Nice story!

 

I have an issue with the French airforce defending itself properly though.

RAF winning against armée de l'air above mediterranean sea? you must be joking... your national pride clouds your judgment.

and about naval air, harriers were already no match for french super etendard (within fuel range, not like argies ones), they are jokes for rafales, with hawkeyes support it would be a slaughter.

in this scenario, french would have : airdefense frigates, hawkeyes, rafales.
Unless the brits manage to bring on some frigates, NO CHANCES.

the real battle would be around gibraltar. French will try to blockade and not allow RN ships to come. french SSN and antisubmarines ships would deploy here, and they would probably lose this one, with losses on every side.

At the end, you would probably see a meditteranean sea controlled by british submarines only, the french controlling air space and though no RN surface ships could deploy.

a draw.

Yes, I think the RN would win too with its submarines, but it might become costly. Bringing in some carriers would help keep casualties down.

 

I'm not sure you're quite aware of how degraded the French airforce is becoming with every passing year..

BW mentioned the lack of depth in the Gib strait.

Finally some sense from him.

The area would have to be secured first.

 

On the other hand, the Rafale continues to suck and does not approximate a first-line fighter.

Ha. It makes sense seeing as that is my dream. To take a less militaristic point on this, France is the centerpeice of the EU. They are one step away from uniting already, so the least provocative and really most beneficial route is to unite the EU then move on to militaristic goals in creating a massive French Empire. However, your idea of this Empire would fall apart in a matter of months. It's too vast to occupy effectively and therefore will fall apart as Nationalism sets in. It would be the shortest lived Empire the world has ever seen.

You're dreaming. Western Europe is in relative decline to Eastern Europe. In a few decades Poland will be more influential than France. Not that the EU isn't bleeding out of its guts and crawling desperately towards some sort of constitution so it can get an override clause on the myriad parliament vetos.

 

And God of Gamblers... I'm not sure what promises the Czech had from the West, but Italy has treaties with Malta.

Malta is only 800 km away from our Corsican airfields.

Plus our air refueling capability.

It means we can use our whole air force at full strenght.

We do not even need a carrier.

What British could do is an attrition war concerning surface naval ships with their SSN.

The only problem is that they have only 8 modern SSN available max (Trafalgar+Astute class).

Concerning navy we are close to our Toulon navy harbor and of course our ASW capabilites at are full strenght.

Including availability of 28 Atlantic G2 ASW aircrafts.

British can not do anything unless they could get a full support from a country close to Malta to use it for RAF.

They can not even dream to retake the island.

The only possibity would be a full scale war against metropolitan France and I seriouly doubt they could do anything serious..

 

 

Who rules the EU? It isn't France.

 

 

The thread is more to discuss the capabilities of France and the UK than to actually discuss the possibility of France invading Malta... obviously such a thing will not come to pass in the current geopolitical situation.

The Czechs? Are you referring to WW2? Yes, they did have defence treaties but when the tanks rolled in none of them were honored. In theory, the same could happen in Malta for the sake of our theoretical scenario.