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Subject: THIRD FRENCH EMPIRE: Can the UK stop it?!?!?!
Godofgamblers    8/24/2006 4:42:38 AM
Wishing to write his name into the history books, Jaacques Chirac resolves to establish the THIRD FRENCH EMPIRE.

He secures the agreement of some major Arab states (Lebanon, Syria and Palestine) to join a French commonwealth leading to a merger of states. Many other Arab states consider the motion, hoping to create a counterweight in the region to the US/Israel bloc and considering the sizable number of Arabs living in France.

As for Africa, Chirac decides to take it outright as part of the new French empire. Some Arab countries such as Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia will be allowed to maintain puppet goverments for historic reasons, however.

As a sign that he means business, French marines land at Valletta with CAS from 70 Rafales from the CdG. SEAD neturalizes Malta Int?l Airport. Malta?s Bulldog fighters are no match for the French airforce. Sorties are launched from Corsica and CdG to destroy Malta?s military capability. French Legionnaires from Djibouti land and take Hal-Far and other important military objectives.

Once air supremacy is achieved, Malta?s military forces are identified, targetted and neutralized, and regular French army units supported by 100 LeClercs land at the ports of Birrzebbuga and Marsaxlokk, sealing Malta?s fate.

Africa watches in shock as the French Tricolore flies above Malta?s Parliament. Chirac publicly proclaims that Malta will serve as the stepping stone to ops in Africa should some countries be non-compliant.

Coffee literally flies out of Tony Blair?s nose as he reads the morning paper: FRANCE TAKES MALTA IN LIGHTNING ATTACK.

For historic reasons, he would like to free Malta. However, a few quick phonecalls reveal that the EU and the US will not interfere in this matter.

In fact, the US is glad that the French will be taking a more active role in the ME and too many of their forces are engaged in Iraq to help out the Brits anyway. This will be another Faklands type war, Bush advises.

Chirac calls and tells Blair that he must condone and accept the French invasion publicly. Chirac will be beginning his Africa drive and doesn?t want any hiccups.

Blair stares into space wondering what he can do faced with this ?fait accompli?? If he chooses to rush to Malta?s aid, it won?t be the Belgrano he?ll be facing but the CdG in a warzone dotted with French military bases? should he really stir up the hornet?s nest?


The Question IS:

Does Britain have the military wherewithal to wrest Malta from the French without (1) going nuclear (2) receiving aid from other countries (3) attacking France proper (for fear of escalation)?


 
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skrip00    mass media brainwashing?   8/31/2006 7:50:32 PM
Please... I dont think the US is in any trouble.

Politically, we're stable.  George W. Bush won both times fair and square, with the Democrats admitting defeat.

Sure we have a few crazies and some dynasties in our political system... but nothing causing too much trouble.

The mass media isnt trusted anymore anyway.  Most people here are free thinkers, and while normally spouting what they hear from the MSM, they tend to know there is more to it.

Maybe your just brainwashed into thinking we are brainwashed over here?  Hell, we're all brainwashed... so lets just grab some beer and chips.
 
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TDidier       9/1/2006 8:41:51 AM
Let's go back to this funny topic.

It will ammuse me a lot to know exactly how UK will chalenge France in the Med and with what material??? Even in Atlantic, how UK would blocade France???

Waiting for your stuff, gentlemen...

Just reminder:
France:
1 Medium Carrier, 40 hight performance aircrafts/awacs/helos (42 000t)
2 LPD, 16 helos, (21 000t)

1 Helos Carrier cruiser, 8 helos possibility for 600 commandos (13 000t)

4 Missile launching Subs
6 Rubis class
(4 diesel subs in reserve)

2 air-defence Destroyer (including 1 Horizon class, 48 ASTER-PAAMS, 7000t + 1 destroyer close to achievement)
2 air-defence Frigates, Standart Mk1, 4800t

2(+1 in reserve) ASM Tourville class destroyers, 6100t
7 ASM frigates, 4500t

11 multipurpose frigates, from 3000t to 3600t

9 (+some in reserve) multipurpose Corvettes, 1350t

Patrol boats, large number including 17 more than 400t

Maritme patrol and warfare aircrafts
28 Atlantics, Various number of  Nord 262/Falcon50/Falcon20

Fighter jets:
560 in service and in reserve.

Please feel free to ague how UK will act... (don(t forget precise numbers)
 
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Padfoot       9/1/2006 10:05:43 AM

Let's go back to this funny topic.


It will ammuse me a lot to know exactly how UK will chalenge France in
the Med and with what material??? Even in Atlantic, how UK would
blocade France???


Waiting for your stuff, gentlemen...

Just reminder:
France:
1 Medium Carrier, 40 hight performance aircrafts/awacs/helos (42 000t)
2 LPD, 16 helos, (21 000t)

1 Helos Carrier cruiser, 8 helos possibility for 600 commandos (13 000t)

4 Missile launching Subs
6 Rubis class
(4 diesel subs in reserve)

2 air-defence Destroyer (including 1 Horizon class, 48 ASTER-PAAMS, 7000t + 1 destroyer close to achievement)
2 air-defence Frigates, Standart Mk1, 4800t

2(+1 in reserve) ASM Tourville class destroyers, 6100t
7 ASM frigates, 4500t

11 multipurpose frigates, from 3000t to 3600t

9 (+some in reserve) multipurpose Corvettes, 1350t

Patrol boats, large number including 17 more than 400t

Maritme patrol and warfare aircrafts
28 Atlantics, Various number of  Nord 262/Falcon50/Falcon20

Fighter jets:
560 in service and in reserve.

Please feel free to ague how UK will act... (don(t forget precise numbers)

Precise numbers? What does that mean?

In 1688 France had 25 million citizens, Britain had 5 million. Both nations embarked on the second hundred years war. When it finished in 1815,  France was vanquished, humilated (as usual), and the chip on your shoulder was born even though it was concieved 800 years before.

You French will always be thought of as 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys'.

Get used to it.
 
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soleil9       9/1/2006 10:14:32 AM
the main problem for us (french) will be Gibraltar, cause if Britain can use this land and +/- 150nmi around, they gain airbase in western med to escort convoy during passage of hercule's colummns.And all that we can fear is a great number of fighter, without at less 150/200 fighters, all vessels will sink for luckiest between Cap Teulada and Cap Bon.
 
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ProDemocracy    Padfoot   9/1/2006 10:15:27 AM

"You French will always be thought of as 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys'. "

---LOL - Gee Padfoot, why don't you loosen up and tell us what you really think?
 
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TDidier       9/1/2006 1:05:21 PM

Hi,




Precise numbers? What does that mean?

In 1688 France had 25 million citizens, Britain had 5 million. Both nations embarked on the second hundred years war. When it finished in 1815,  France was vanquished, humilated (as usual), and the chip on your shoulder was born even though it was concieved 800 years before.

You French will always be thought of as 'cheese-eating surrender monkeys'.

Get used to it.






In your history books maybe but in mine France was at war with the totality of Europe, not only since this 1688, but long before. France lost, sad regarding the cost but not so bad regarding how megalomaniac became this genius of Napoléon (but he crushed the République everywhere in Europe and that is unexcusable)

But come back to the topic, with how much ships/aircrafts/subs and anything you have is UK able to put in the balance and how would it work to blocade France.

About Gibraltar, ok, but we are not in still in 40's, some Apaches and Scalp missile would be enougth to reduce Gibraltar projection capability for time (but still UK would be able to forbide France to step in/out med by this way. Is it really damageable for France?
 
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RockyMTNClimber       9/2/2006 3:29:54 PM
 
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RockyMTNClimber    French Loose   9/2/2006 3:32:26 PM
You guys are nuts. The French fleet would loose in 14 days to the Brit SSN operations.
 
 
 
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TDidier       9/3/2006 6:36:10 AM


You guys are nuts. The French fleet would loose in 14 days to the Brit SSN operations.

 

 

Then, if you say so....
...
....
........ And why/how?
 
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Maltese Cross    Third French Empire-the maltese view   9/3/2006 3:23:05 PM

Sorry to be posting so late in the thread. However, I've only skimmed throught the previous posts and I apologise if i have missed something.

 

There are some details in the original posting that may need some ammendmant. First of all the French (if they had to for some inexplicable reason invade Malta) would not need to neutralise the bulldogs as they are unarmed. Malta also has no armour whatsoever and in the face of any opposition in strength would surrender. There is no purpose in any landing at Valletta as the island is small enough to be taken by one concentrated landing.

However, I fail to see how the French benefit by such an invasion. Anchorage in probably not needed and there is only one functioning airport, the international airport at Luqa. Which, if I understood the original post correctly, was neutralised.

The roads are also in terrible condition, I'll bet the Australians have in easier time on the outback!!

Then comes the question on who would come to our aid. Malta currently has a defence agreement with Italy. In fact much of the military equipment is Italian and the Italian helicopter stationed on the island is piloted by an Italian.

What we are dealing with then is a joint Anglo-Italian relief force with debatable help from Libya (due to economic ties). Using Italian bases on Sicily and Royal Navy vessels and firepower coupled with the expertise of the Royal Marines the French will be beaten on land and sea. Any retaking of Malta by force would inevitably result in urban warfare. Something at which the British excell.

Failing all this there is always the disruption of supply convoys to Malta. This was tried in the Second World War and came incredibly close to success. Malta has a population of circa 400,000. Deprivation of food supplies means that the French would capitulate within a month, although this method means undue suffering to the Maltese.

Oh, and remember that there is no love lost between the French and the Maltese. They invaded once before in 1798 and a Maltese uprising led to the entire garrison being besieged in Valletta.
 
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Shirrush    Gallo-Islamic Imperial Future?   9/3/2006 3:29:45 PM
Whew!
Nice thread you guys put together here.
Sadly, IMV, GoG's scenario is realistic enough to deprive me of some sleep tonight.
If the Arabs were a homogenous block, which they aren't in spite of  all the pan-Islamic and Umma/Khilafa babble we hear nowadays, they would  make sure that the treasonable Gaullist Eurabia fantasy quickly comes to fruition.
This would be their easiest shortcut towards nuclear capability, and would spare them a lot of cash and effort.
As to the possibility of seeing the French somehow react to Notre Dame de Paris being turned into a mosque called al-Masjid al-Chirakyia or something like that, I wouldn't count on it:  nobody there wants to appear as Islamophobic, now do they?
In any case, they did not object too much to the svastika on the Arc de Triomphe the last time they chose to yield to the enemies of the West, so I suppose the Brits would indeed need to send their Navy into harm's way in the Western Med instead of waiting for the French resistance to do something.

Greetings from the doomed Metaghetto of Gush-Dan, Israel;

Shirrush.



 
 
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Shirrush    Gallo-Islamic Imperial Future?   9/3/2006 3:39:19 PM
Whew!
Nice thread you guys put together here.
Sadly, IMV, GoG's scenario is realistic enough to deprive me of some sleep tonight.
If the Arabs were a homogenous block, which they aren't in spite of  all the pan-Islamic and Umma/Khilafa babble we hear nowadays, they would  make sure that the treasonable Gaullist Eurabia fantasy quickly comes to fruition.
This would be their easiest shortcut towards nuclear capability, and would spare them a lot of cash and effort.
As to the possibility of seeing the French somehow react to Notre Dame de Paris being turned into a mosque called al-Masjid al-Chirakyia or something like that, I wouldn't count on it:  nobody there wants to appear as Islamophobic, now do they?
In any case, they did not object too much to the svastika on the Arc de Triomphe the last time they chose to yield to the enemies of the West, so I suppose the Brits would indeed need to send their Navy into harm's way in the Western Med instead of waiting for the French resistance to do something.

Greetings from the doomed Metaghetto of Gush-Dan, Israel;

Shirrush.



 
 
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soleil9       9/3/2006 7:07:02 PM

Maltese cross,

Maybe you take things in the wrong way, Lybia will never help Italia and Italia never be involved in this war, power and energy is made with oil in Italia and Algeria is the main supplier, so in this scenario, nothing can be do to retake malta, a franco arabic alliance will be unbeatable in med. cause oil furniture will always be more important than people's liberty....but don't worry  we do not even manage to sign a treaty of friendship, then an alliance...

And of course things will be different if france try that solo
 
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Godofgamblers       9/3/2006 8:15:41 PM

Whew!

Nice thread you guys put together here.

Sadly, IMV, GoG's scenario is realistic enough to deprive me of some sleep tonight.

If the Arabs were a homogenous block, which they aren't in spite
of  all the pan-Islamic and Umma/Khilafa babble we hear nowadays,
they would  make sure that the treasonable Gaullist Eurabia
fantasy quickly comes to fruition.

This would be their easiest shortcut towards nuclear capability, and would spare them a lot of cash and effort.

As to the possibility of seeing the French somehow react to Notre Dame
de Paris being turned into a mosque called al-Masjid al-Chirakyia or
something like that, I wouldn't count on it:  nobody there wants
to appear as Islamophobic, now do they?

In any case, they did not object too much to the svastika on the Arc de
Triomphe the last time they chose to yield to the enemies of the West,
so I suppose the Brits would indeed need to send their Navy into harm's
way in the Western Med instead of waiting for the French resistance to
do something.


Greetings from the doomed Metaghetto of Gush-Dan, Israel;


Shirrush.




 


Hey, Shirrush! Long time no read. Hope all is well with you. Although some seem to think that I came up with this scenario while puffing on my houka or something, it was French policy over 30 years to form a Middle Eastern power block, which explains their out of control arabic immigration policies. The choice of taking Malta as a stepping stone was my own invention as it seemed to lend itself to an interesting scenario and a showdown with the RN.
 
In any case, between you and me, I don't think the 'Gaullist Eurabia' will ever come into being simply because there is no one on the horizon who has the political will to make bold (crazy) moves such as the ones I have outlined in my scenario. The French are sticking to politics and not confrontation to build an empire through the EU, etc.
 
cheers
 
 

 
 
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Godofgamblers       9/3/2006 8:26:55 PM


Sorry to be posting so late in the thread. However, I've only skimmed throught the previous posts and I apologise if i have missed something.


 


There are some details in the original posting that may need some ammendmant. First of all the French (if they had to for some inexplicable reason invade Malta) would not need to neutralise the bulldogs as they are unarmed. Malta also has no armour whatsoever and in the face of any opposition in strength would surrender. There is no purpose in any landing at Valletta as the island is small enough to be taken by one concentrated landing.


However, I fail to see how the French benefit by such an invasion. Anchorage in probably not needed and there is only one functioning airport, the international airport at Luqa. Which, if I understood the original post correctly, was neutralised.


The roads are also in terrible condition, I'll bet the Australians have in easier time on the outback!!


Then comes the question on who would come to our aid. Malta currently has a defence agreement with Italy. In fact much of the military equipment is Italian and the Italian helicopter stationed on the island is piloted by an Italian.


What we are dealing with then is a joint Anglo-Italian relief force with debatable help from Libya (due to economic ties). Using Italian bases on Sicily and Royal Navy vessels and firepower coupled with the expertise of the Royal Marines the French will be beaten on land and sea. Any retaking of Malta by force would inevitably result in urban warfare. Something at which the British excell.


Failing all this there is always the disruption of supply convoys to Malta. This was tried in the Second World War and came incredibly close to success. Malta has a population of circa 400,000. Deprivation of food supplies means that the French would capitulate within a month, although this method means undue suffering to the Maltese.


Oh, and remember that there is no love lost between the French and the Maltese. They invaded once before in 1798 and a Maltese uprising led to the entire garrison being besieged in Valletta.



This is fantastic! I didn't imagine that there were any Maltese posters.
Sorry for the factual errors in my scenario, MC, I didn't do my homework, I guess:)
 
I did see though that the French had taken Malta before, which is one reason why I chose it as France's stepping stone to Africa.
 
A few quick questions:
 
(1) What are Malta's ties to the Arab world like? Do Maltese tend to favor the Arabs or distance themselves from them in int'l politics?
 
(2) I believe that B company of the 1st regiment is in charge of protecting sensitive gov't installations. Are they then scattered all over Malta?
 
(3) What are the approxiate numbers of the Emergency Volunteer Force?
 
Thanks, MC.
 
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