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Subject: Estimated Israeli War Losses
mithradates    8/19/2006 12:40:20 AM
I'm not sure if the source for these numbers are reliable because quite frankly both sides of the conflict have been lying through their teeth. But here is the supposed losses suffered by Israel. IDF casualties : 120 soldiers ranked KIA and more than 2000 WIA IDF equipement destroyed or heavily damaged by Hezbollah: 120 Merkava series tanks 30 armored vehicles (APC, armored engineering vehicles...) 1 Saeer 5 ship 1 Saeer 4.5 ship 3 Apache helicopters 1 F16 fighter 1 MK drone
 
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underdog    RE:Estimated Israeli War Losses   8/20/2006 11:51:49 AM
jaythehistorian writes: "What are the source of these figures? This is just wishful thinking on the part of antisemites. I refer all to the "Attrition: Losses in Lebanon" article of 8/19/06 on this website." Why is it that any statement, opinion, criticism or observation that does not lend itself favorably to Jewish or Israeli interests is considered anti-semitic? The motive is clearly an effort to stifle legitimate debate. In a country that values freedom of speech and expression in all its myriad forms, this is a mentality we can all do without.
 
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jaythehistorian    misinformation from mithradates   8/20/2006 10:35:03 PM
I did a google news search and found nothing to confirm you assertion Israel lost "130-140 Merkavas" or anything close to that. I went to Stratfor site and there was nothing about how many Merkavas were killed or damaged. I noticed you grouped the "Iranian IRNG" as a "third party". I question the reliability of anything you post unless you can provide a reliable link .Where is the link to Stratfor?. You are engaging in wishful thinking.
 
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Pseudonym    RE:Estimated Israeli War Losses   8/20/2006 10:51:59 PM
"Why is it that any statement, opinion, criticism or observation that does not lend itself favorably to Jewish or Israeli interests is considered anti-semitic? The motive is clearly an effort to stifle legitimate debate. In a country that values freedom of speech and expression in all its myriad forms, this is a mentality we can all do without." This is a perfect example of Freedom of speech. Mithrades posted dubious information without any verifiable source material. Jay saw this and wondered why Mith was posting things that have never been reported in one of the most reported conflicts of our day. Naturally he had to wonder why Mith was making up extra Israeli casualties, and what is the first thing that comes to mind when people are lying about Israelis? It's not stifling debate, it's using his own Freedom of Speech to call someone out on their propaganda. Or should he just let the lie stand like all the Hizb'Allah staged atrocities the world is decrying? They put Qana burials on the news to damn the Israeli's again, calling it an atrocity, why did they say nothing about the reports from Lebanon that say Hizb'Allah purposefully staged the atrocity? So Jay is like the rest of us, looking at lies and wondering what the world has come to if they believe it all... gullible...
 
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yakeepi    RE:Estimated Israeli War Losses   8/20/2006 11:05:11 PM
I did some research, and the sources give various numbers. Here is one, close to the mithradates' info: http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2006-08/18/01.shtml
 
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underdog    RE:Estimated Israeli War Losses   8/21/2006 7:57:07 AM
In reponse to "gullible..." You are right. It is free speech. But in one of its most cowardly forms. An accusation of "anti-semitism" in the absence of any evidence of bigotry amounts to little more than name calling, and is intended to make the accused defend himself from a false claim, thereby deflecting attention from the real issue at hand. Unfortunately, this tactic is all too prevalent. So given the true nature of this "free speech", it reveals much more about the accuser than the accused. As for the original post by mithradates, it looks to me like a simple attempt to start a discussion. Mithradates himself expresses skepticism about the accuracy of the data. So where is the bigotry?
 
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jaythehistorian    RE:Estimated Israeli War Losses   8/21/2006 9:11:48 AM
When I used the word "antisemites" I was not referring to Mithradates, but to his sources, especially Arab sources .
 
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underdog    RE:Estimated Israeli War Losses   8/21/2006 1:14:08 PM
Well..., since it is especially Arabs you were referring to, I guess that makes it okay. But I also think that the "unofficial" casualty figures for Hizbullah cited in the article are "wishful thinking" on the part of whoever compiled them. I tend to agree with Mithradates' assertion that "both sides of the conflict have been lying through their teeth".
 
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CasualObserver    RE:Estimated Israeli War Losses   8/21/2006 3:43:38 PM
Pictures of the damage done to the INS Hanit have been floating abround the internet. As for a Saar 4.5 damaged, I can not find any information supporting the claim except that given by Hezbollah. Not to mention the term Saar 4.5 is in itself a little misleading. The two ships that best fit in this 4.5 category were decommissioned and sold off a few years ago.
 
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swhitebull    Here's What Happened to the second Saar   8/22/2006 4:26:41 PM
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/hezbollah_sinks_australian_warship/ swhitebull - what morons, and the world Media buys into it - and some on these boards as ell
 
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CasualObserver    RE:Here's What Happened to the second Saar   8/22/2006 5:20:08 PM
What was an Austrialian ship doing off the coast of Lebanon and when did Hezbollah get torpedos? It must be that new supersonic torpedo that Iran has. The point I was making is that other than Hezballoh, who has not had the best track record for telling the truth, no one else offered any evidence that another ship was ever hit. (By the way I did not see the picture or the Herald Sun Article until today, pretty funny picture) What I was questioning is that if someone is going to use the second ship in their damage estimates the rest of the estimate list becomes questionable. However, Hezbollah did catch the Hanit by suprise and Israel is lucky that it wasn't sunk considering the ships size and the missile used. Also the damage done to the Hanit looks much less than the damage done to the Cole, of course no knows the real extent from the inside.
 
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