>>in the trenches a spade is often the preferred weapon for close quarters fighting.<< Yes, an E-tool to the head is probably pretty painful. >> for charges though, nothing beats the bayonet.<< Whenever the US charges an enemy area, we usually use JDAMs and bullets, but the Bayonet might takw a close 7th.

If I recall correctly a UK soldier got a VC for clearing the enemy with a bayonet in Iraq. In really close quarters the enemy may grab for the muzzle of your weapon. With a bayonet at the end he may be less able to do so. While in the Corps I had a First Sergeant who was a Navy Cross winner when he served in Viet Nam. One of the stories about him, though I never heard it from him personally, was that he had killed two of the enemy with an e-tool when they tried to share his fighting position with him.

All the really important bases seem to have been covered. Primarily I found them usefull for opening MRE pouches. A question for Iano and Yimmy - US bayonets + sheath were / are supposedly good for cutting wire, but in practice they perform(ed) that function rather poorly. We always carried wire cutters seperately. Do the UK models actually work well in that role ?

"in the trenches a spade is often the preferred weapon for close quarters fighting." I had a Brigade CSM that had a rather impressive citation (Vietnam era) for doing just that.. a rather scary fellow the Sergeant Major and a bit nuts.. His standard reply or comment on most things seemed to be "Hooah, move out and draw fire!"

Why bayonets? because in the words of the immortal and fictious Cpl Jones "they don't like it up 'em". It's not just a weapon for infantry, FSB CORAL 1968 found gunners using bayonets to defend themselves. The VC in Iraq was not for anything to do with bayonets, however, it appears that bayonets have been used in attack more that once.

Nice thing about the US Army's current folding E-tool is, the serrated edge can be made very sharp with a rasp or file. Ideally, turning it and screwing it tight 90 degrees off the handle axis makes it a good root chopper for when digging foxholes. But certainly its effect on human flesh and bone would be just as "effective". http://www.army-surplus.com/ss_store/media/ET01.jpg> Me and a hunting buddy each carry a Woodman's Pal when out and about (although raising the eyebrows of the occasional state game officer). They make short work of unexpected heavy brush, the random poisonous snake, and quick-gutting of heavy game. http://www.woodmanspal.com/ http://www.woodmanspal.com/images/newlogo6.gif> Mind you though, it would make for a very intimidating close-quarters combat weapon (almost like some of those Klingon mek'leths from Star Trek). We filed down the noses of ours to effectively make them thrusting/stabbing weapons also (easier to thrust into a deer's gut before evisceration). Sadistic? Maybe.

http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/1-3618.asp What is the spirit of the Bayonet?

Yeh the SA80 bayonet is a bit cack at cutting wire. You need to use both the bayonet and the scabbard together to make it work. Wire cutters that are properly made for the job can be begotten, but they are only issued when you need them i.e. if you were going through an obstacle or something. And then probably only 1 or 2 guys in a section would get them. So I still see a need for everyone to have at least a rudimentary way of cutting wire all the time. Its like entrenching tools. You can have proper long-handled spades but theres no guarantee you will get them, the number you will get, and they might be 5 miles away on the CQMSs wagon. So even though the tri-fold NATO issue one isnt as good, carry it anyway as you know you've at least got SOMETHING to dig with. As for intrenchment tools the NATO one isnt so good, get an East German one (has a black head and wooden handle) and graft the head onto the "stem sections" of the NATO E-tool. It still fits the cover, and the old East German one is the way forward! For fighting with E tools remember not every soldier has one at all times (1 between 2 is enough usually as you dont wanna be carrying deadweight) and it also takes a while to get ready (practically all of ours carry it in their daysack rather than on their beltkits). Also your nice sharp trench killing edge might be not so sharp if you have been called upon to dig with it! That said, I wouldnt want to take one to the swede, itd ruin my whole day.

A bizarre regulation in British forces is that you cannot actually have a sharpened bayonet unless you are at war. The ones in the armoury are all blunt. You could still use the point of it for stabbing, but surely not as good used as a fighting knife held in the hand as you could not slash with it, you might have to reverse your grip and smash someone in the face with the pommel! I've heard of a guy in my unit who was in Iraq for the initial Op Telic 1, who had his nice-sharpened-for-the-war bayonet taken from him, blunted on a grinding wheel and handed back when the "main war" phase turned into the "peace support" phase because of this rule! Never heard of someone being in trouble for it though, but I suppose it all depends on your boss. Some guys will get theirs sharpened when theyre not meant to. Plus some people carry their own big knives which are sharp so I personally cannot see the point in this regulation. So my question to the Americans is, are American bayonets blunt until you go off to war? Can you be put on a charge for having a sharp bayonet stateside?

"So my question to the Americans is, are American bayonets blunt until you go off to war? Can you be put on a charge for having a sharp bayonet stateside?" No such regulation that I'm aware of. Although, I don't think there was a lot of bayonet sharpening short of going off to war. Most US troops that were so inclined, would pack their own field knife that they may or may not sharpen depending on what they found it usefull for. I generally just had a Leatherman or Gerber handy (not exactly a combat knife ;-). There was always one or two guys that styled themselves as new age Rambo's or generally had a thing for knives and would pack something razor sharp but more or less dead weight. We,of course, always had to carry bayonets.