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Subject: If the US Marine Corps, and the French Foreign Legion had a battle, which side would win?
Republican    1/1/2006 4:03:01 AM
I think the Corps would win, but both sides are tough as nails.
 
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JFKY       5/8/2008 1:31:15 PM
I shouldn't bother but I will...this is even a debate?  180,000 personnel, with AV-8's, AH-1's, F/A-18's, 155mm artillery, M-1 MBT's, organized into 3 DIVISIONS, versus a force that is a set of independent BATTALIONS?  A force that has armoured cars and 105mm howitzers at best, and no integral air support?  This isn't even debatable...
 
I might add that man-for-man the USMC has the advantage as well.  It is a much more homogeneous organization than La Legion Etrangere.  The Legion draws from a diverse human back ground that has to be taught French, first, not really a problem in the USMC.  The USMC has better NCO's, the Legion has a spotty track record of NCO development and finally, the USMC has MILES gear and 29 Palms Combined Arms Training Area.  I doubt the Legion has anything remotely equivalent.  So even at the battalion-level, the Corps beats the legion, easily.  The Legion has a great history and a great PR machine and it's members can, no doubt, drink like fishes, but I don't think they're going to outfight the USMC....and I am in NO way a fan of the USMC.
 
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FT_Italy       7/11/2008 5:40:10 AM
But what about troop morale and thoughts?
I always looked at the Legion as tough guys, but also foreign mercenaries, often fleeing from bad lives or (more rarely) looking for some adventure, and often with fragile psycology: not the best human material of the World, nor the most patriotic corps; if I should make a comparison, I would take a German discipline battalion, with the Legion a bit better commanded, but the battalion formed by slightly better men.
 
As you, I do not trust so much in foreign-recruited troops...but this could be also the problem of Marines, if they got many Latino-America immigrants: anyway, these ones would at least fight to grant a better future to their families, if not for a country that is not their country.
 
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kruzer       7/12/2008 12:27:01 AM
Two Words Belleau Wood. 
 
In a battle noteworthy in the U.S. because of both its extremely bloody nature (such bloody battles being the norm for the French, British, and German armies of the time) and its close proximity to the French capital of Paris, the American Expeditionary Forces (AEF) launched a counter-attack designed to stop the German advance. The Second Division was tasked with taking the woods; and the U.S. 4th Marine Brigade, with its 5th and 6th Marine Regiments, was sent forward. In order to enter and take the woods, it was necessary to advance across an open field of wheat that was continuously swept with German machine gun and artillery fire. After Marines were repeatedly urged to turn back by retreating French forces, Marine Captain Lloyd W. Williams of the 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines uttered the now-famous retort "Retreat? Hell, we just got here!"
Ooorah!!
 
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kruzer       7/12/2008 12:29:23 AM
PS. 
   On 6 June, the casualties were the highest in Marine Corps history to that point. Overall, the woods were attacked by the Marines a total of six times before they could successfully expel the Germans. They fought off more than four divisions of Germans, often reduced to using only their bayonets or fists in hand-to-hand combat. One of the most famous quotations in Marine Corps lore came during the initial step-off for the battle when Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly prompted his men forward with the words: "Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?"
KILL !!!
 
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Popcorn       2/12/2010 8:27:14 PM

5 de Mayo!!!
The undifeated well equiped Troops V.S. A bunch of Indians with nifes and Worn Down Mexican troops with old guns and the French still lost.
Viva Mexico, Vivia la Libertad!

Hmm, Correct me if I am wrong, but the French lost the Battle of Pueblo then won the war, right? 5 de Mayo celebrate the first victory of the Mexicans united as a people. You should know your Mexican history a little bit better.
 
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Popcorn       2/12/2010 9:11:20 PM
Where the USMC has the real advantage right now is that their Combat units have a very high percentage of actual Combat Vets...sustained operations over long periods of time. The FFL does not have that level of actual combat experience. Training is Training...both are very good and train to good levels...which can be said of any Western Combat units. But in actual combat experience the US and UK militaries have the most experience at this time. So if equal size units of the USMC and FFL were to engage in combat I would say the USMC would win but it wouldn't be easy or bloodless.
The Foreign Legion 13eme DBLE (Demi Brigade de Legion Etrangère based in Djibouti has been involved in Combat Operation almost continuously since Narvik in WW2. This first allied land victory of World War II proved to be worth absolutely nothing. Though the Legionnaires were driving the Germans 10 miles to the Swedish border, France was collapsing. The 13emme DBLE returned to Brest and there, the demi-brigade split: 31 officers and 636 men elected to return to North Africa and the CO Magrin-Vernerey, 28 officers and 900 men signed up with Charles de Gaulle's Free French From Africa (Chad, Eritrea, North Africa with Montgomery, Bir Hacheim ( Foreign Legion fighting each other on both side), El Alamein,  Italy and France. Then after WW2 Indochina ( Including Dien Bien Phu) the Algeria, the permanent posting in Djibouti including overt and covert operations, Somalia n addition to its security responsibilities in Djibouti, the 13 DBLE has participated in military operations that include Operation ORYX and Operation UNOSOM II in Somalia (1992-1993) Operation ISKOUTIR (1993-1995), Operation TURQUOISE in Rwanda (1994), and Operation UNICORN in the Ivory Coast (2002). And it is only one unit of the Foreign Legion. The concept that a Legionnaire life is expandable is a fallacy. For the Legion a combat casualty is a working accident that should be avoided since a valuable legionnaire is one who survives to fight another battle. However a strong sense of honor above self is the driving force of the Legion and a strong willingness to pay the ultimate sacrifice is the need is present, but not gratuicely. Only the tops of the graduating classes of the Military Academies are allowed to ask for Legion duty. Once in the Legion they have to earn the respect of their subalterns.
 
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Ispose    Re: Popcorn   2/18/2010 10:36:18 PM
The USMC has far more combat experience right NOW.
You can bring up Algiers, etc....and we can trot forth Iwo Jima, etc....but right now, at this moment, the currently serving members of the USMC have far more combat experience than the FFL...
The both train hard and have good gear...but the high percentage of combat vets in the USMC would be the deciding edge.
 
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Popcorn       2/24/2010 3:17:09 PM
Thank you for your post.
However you should consider several factors.
The first one is that the length of service of the Combat Legionnaire is much longer than the average Marine.
The effectif of the Foreign Legion is not large enough to allow rotation. Therefore the units and the men within are on the field much longer.
The Legion has a much larger ratio of combattants vs. logistic people.
The Legion is much less dependent on logistic allowing it much greater flexibility.
The typical Legionnaire is highly trained on all the disciplines represented in his unit allowing him to replace many specialist in combat.
Since WW2 the Foreign Legion has been in arms way pratically on an uniterrupted  fashion, either for mainly French operations: Indochina, Suez, Algeria and Africa , As part of NATO they were in Korea, in Lebanon ( They help provide protection with  the evacuation of the survivors of the Marine Barracks in Beyrouth). They were part of all the operations in Eastern Europe including Bosnia Herzegovina) They took a pretty impressive role in the first Guld War as part of  6th Light Armoured Division Daguet securing the Left Front of the Allied attack and blocking any attempt of counter attack
The 13 DBLE for example In addition to its security responsibilities in Djibouti, the 13 DBLE has participated in military operations that include Operation ORYX and Operation UNOSOM II in Somalia (1992-1993) Operation ISKOUTIR (1993-1995), Operation TURQUOISE in Rwanda (1994), and Operation UNICORN in the Ivory Coast (2002) and is presently involved in covert operation within Somalia as part of the International anti piracy force.
The Foreign Legion has also a fairly respectable number of Special Forces involved in covert operations.
Again I do not question the qualification of the US Marine Corp and in fact by shear numbers the Marine Corp would overwelm the Foreign Legion. But a comparaison between the two is not possible since they both fit a very special nich in the large picture of the Allied fighting forces.
 
 
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JTR~~    pretty easy   3/15/2010 3:01:31 PM
fighting would be instense, far much more than the marines have ever experienced up until now, i may even go to the lengths that the FFL are better trained, but they lack the support the marines have, aswell as the fact that the USMC are well trained themselves, there can be no doubt, the USMC would win, they are a small army in their own rights.
and this is coming from a Brit ha-ha :)
 
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Hamilcar    Iwo Jima   3/15/2010 3:18:09 PM
Saipan, Peleliu, Chosin Reservoir, etc.
 
I don't think the FFL compares to or could  HANDLE those enemies, much less the Marines who fought them.
 
Not a criticism, just raw DATA.

 
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