Comparison between the Navies of India and China

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Pages: PREV 1 2 3 4

ArrowGuns Reality Check for Myth-Radates 12/1/2005 1:31:38 PM

Myth 1: "Instead most of India's oil supply(~80%) is coming overland through 2 major routes: Pakistan, and the central asian republics." Reality: There is no operation pipeline between Central Asia or West Asia to India that travels through Pakistan. Not a drop of oil comes into India via Pakistan. Myth 2: "Pakistan is a Chinese ally(with 1 Chinese naval base and several military bases), and they could well stop the flow of energy to India." Reality: China does not have any operational military base in Pakistan. But Uncle Sam does control Pakistan and is on India's side. Myth 3: Most of the central asian republics(4 members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization) are Chinese client states. Reality: Russia is member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and is in no way a client state of China! India has excellent relations with the Stans in Central Asia. In fact, India has a military base in Farkhor, Tajikistan. Follow the link: link All these Stans also have US military presence and are not Chinese "client" states. Stop jerking off. Myth 4: These countries are beyond the power projection range of India's airforce(due to the lack of domestic in-flight refueling aircrafts),but well within range of the PLAAF and garrisoned by PLA troops. Reality: Indian Air Force does have air-to-air refuelling capabilities as was also displayed when IAF planes flew over 12,000 miles to Alaska for the Cope Thunder exercises with USAF. Follow this link to see some cool pictures: link Myth 5: While the straits of Malacca serves as an energy conduit to dozens of Asian countries, the pipelines going through Pakistan and the central asian republics have ONLY ONE identifiable destination. Thus China would be able to DISCRIMINATELY cut off India's energy supply, while India can only INDISCRIMINATELY cut off China's supply. Disrupting the malacca straits will send energy prices through the roof, and bring many enemies to India. But cutting off the pipe lines from Pakistan and Central asia to India, hurts ONLY India without offending too many other countries. Reality: Myth annihilated in the reality explanations above. Now back to the topic at hand. Despite your great claims about PLAN, PLAN has zero combat experience. Repeat: Zero Combat Experience. Indian Navy has proved its overseas power projection capability in at least to incidents: 1. Indian Naval operation in response to Maldives government SOS call during their coup. 2. Extraction of Indian Army troops from Somalia. 3. Tsunami Relief Operations to Sri Lanka and Indonesia, despite being India being hit. No one saw any PLAN ships helping out in Indonesia or Thailand. The reality is that although the world respects the hard working and intelligent Chinese people, everyone looks down upon your government. And China will find itself alone if it tries anything other than providing cheap labor..

Quote Reply

Galrahn RE:Indian Ignorance? More like Chinese Strategic and Tactical Challanges 12/1/2005 2:32:55 PM

"Clearly there are several areas where you are incorrect." Really? I think arrowguns and others in this thread have proven you are incorrect, indeed you appear to be creating strategies on mythical pipelines and bases, I certainly hope China doesn't try fighting their war based on your fictions. Your comment should have been "Clearly there are several areas where we disagree." India wouldn't need to sink a single tanker to prevent oil from getting to China from the Middle East, they would simply sieze the tankers. Boarding tankers would not be required to inspect destination, you simply run the flag and registry of the ship, the Indian Navy probably already spends a great amount of time tracking the large numbers of ships that pass through the area, it isn't going to be hard to identify a tanker bound for China. The tankers aren't actually Chinese even if they are built in China, they are Iranian and Saudi owned and operated, and I don't think your going to see an Iranian oil business try to run a blockade, much less a Saudi, as long as India pays for the fuel (which they probably would as a cost of the war) business is business. It would be China's problem to secure the trade routes to China, not Iran's problem. Since the PLAN doesn't have that capability, China would lose the war. One more thing, you suggested a specific tactic that would be political suicide for China, something unlikely to be done at all in a limited India vs China war. It would take a special circumstance to fire a ASCM at a modern warship near the Strait of Malacca by any country. I am not sure if you are aware, but that is a heavily conjested sea lane. I can't imagine any Western Navy would even attempt an ASCM strike in that area during a limited war. Think about it, if you fire a ASCM at a modern Indian warship in the Strait of Malacca, and countermeasures mask the warship, but the ASCM veers off an hits a Japanese Flagged supertanker instead, how does China explain that? What if it is an Exxon Mobil US flagged supertanker? Ooops wouldn't cut it. US precision weapons have changed the perception of war internationally, China isn't stupid, they would never do anything like that. Bomb or sub launched Torpedo a ship? Absolutely. ASCM? Not a chance, unless there was no danger to hit a neutral.

Quote Reply

Nanheyangrouchuan RE:Indian Ignorance? More like Chinese Strategic and Tactical Challanges 12/1/2005 6:08:37 PM

"Reality: China does not have any operational military base in Pakistan. But Uncle Sam does control Pakistan and is on India's side." mmmm, as much as oppose mythradates' whole outlook, Pakistan isn't exactly under US control. They did sell an F16 to china, there are chinese troops in Kashmir to support pakistan and china is almost finished building a highway from Urumuqi through the length of Pakistan to the freight/naval base China is building on the Pakistani coast. Pakistan is a marvel of 3rd world countries in it's ability to play off so many regional and world powers against each other, but if things go south in a PLA/India conflict that highway will be full of PLA armor to 1. flank India and 2. seize control of that port.

Quote Reply

dabrownguy RE:Chinese Strategic and Tactical Challanges....part II 12/1/2005 11:43:58 PM

First off InAF exercise is great way to learn how to shoot down Russian jets. After all doesn't the InAF operate Russian jets? And who else has more experience shooting down MiGs and Sukios than the Americans? Also to the guy spewing up complete crap heres some for you. The Harriers are BVR capable. They have been upgraded with Derby AAM, radar and EW systems. link Also the InN has 6-8 Il-38 maritime patrol and attack. They also have 8 Tu-142 bear-f. Do some freakin research! Also consider that those jets are that far away how long will it take them to get to the fleet when the aircraft are carrying a payload and considering the fleet is moving! Also its well known the PLAAF at the moment has no BVR capable F-7s! I don't know about J-8's but those wouldn't last long in fights with Harriers anways. We can also consider the fact that if the InN fleet is moving it would be nearly impossible to have 80 cordinated attacks. displacedjim, I think that both sides were simulatingf fictional weapons. I doubt they used semiactive AAM. Also the MKI were not involved in 04 and Mirages didn't simulate MICA. So the article should be read with a pinch of salt IMHO. About the midrefueling. The InAF has better mid air refueling assets than PLAAF. Just so you should know the Jags, MKI, Mirages and the upgraded MiG-27/29 will be capable too. I've proved this mithradates person to be wrong too many times. Can some one shut him up? Hes spewing bogus!

Quote Reply

mithradates RE:Reality Check for Myth-Radates 12/2/2005 3:52:45 AM

Sigh... "Reality: China does not have any operational military base in Pakistan. But Uncle Sam does control Pakistan and is on India's side. " Dude, the PLAN already has subs deployed in Pakistan's Omara Naval Base with a SOVEREIGN lease. Additionally, there are over 500 PLA specialists and security troops deployed right now in Gwadar port were China has also attained a soverign lease. link link "Reality: Indian Air Force does have air-to-air refuelling capabilities as was also displayed when IAF planes flew over 12,000 miles to Alaska for the Cope Thunder exercises with USAF." I said DOMESTIC in-flight refueling planes, which India has NONE. India only has 2 modified Il-76 Inflight refueling aircrafts delivered from Russia. Not much of a force for power projection by any means. The PLAAF otoh has over 25 H6s converted to in-flight refueling. link Your other arguments will be refuted later, I have to go to sleep now.

Quote Reply

displacedjim RE:Reality Check for Myth-Radates 12/2/2005 2:00:53 PM

Returned from the grave Displacedjim

Quote Reply

displacedjim RE:Chinese Strategic and Tactical Challanges....part II 12/2/2005 2:11:11 PM

"displacedjim, I think that both sides were simulatingf fictional weapons. I doubt they used semiactive AAM. Also the MKI were not involved in 04 and Mirages didn't simulate MICA. So the article should be read with a pinch of salt IMHO." -- DBG ---- I agree that both sides were simulating fictional, or notional, weapons. However, I am certain that the article is correct that the USAF F-15s were limited to only being able to use a notional semi-active radar guided AAM, while at least the IAF Su-30K had a simulated notional active radar guided AAM. In addition, while the M2000 may not have had simulated MICA, I am pretty sure they also had the simulated notional active radar AAMs. Also, the article clearly points out that the IAF did **not** use their Su-30MKI, and the whole article matches perfectly with what I know from independent sources, so in my opinion it does not require any seasonings. Displacedjim P.S. I note that out of this morning's screw-up with the post numberings that several posts to this thread were deleted, including my original attempt at this post that I'm now reconstructing and posting again. This leads me to conclude that the whole foul-up is related to one or more stupid f*&@ing b^&*$rds from either China or India or both who either can't debate rationally and/or who can't stand to see free speech in action. In any event, whoever was the cause of it: F&@% you! Displacedjim

Quote Reply

Pages: PREV 1 2 3 4

	News As History - November 24, 2009
	Home News How to Make War Wars Around the World Austin Bay's On Point Dirty Little Secrets Features Al Nofi's CIC Prediction Market Wargames Measure of Respect On War and Warfare Videos Photos Jokes Community Military Discussion Boards Military Jokes Military Photos Military Book Reviews Military Movie Reviews Military Links Wargame Store StrategyPage Subscribe Login Feedback About Us Search Account Manager Advertise With Us