Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest

Godofgamblers    RE:french potential ST   6/14/2005 10:34:52 AM
i agree with everything you say about indian and chinese immigrants; they are a dynamic and positive force and americanize fairly easily, though i would argue that slavs are even better as chinese and indians put more store by their home cultures, at least it seems to me. most immigration from france at the moment is from North Africa; they are not assimilating well, which is causing friction at the moment. this is probably only temporary, but they are not as dynamic as the typical immigrant to the US (take the koreans in the US, for instance: the average morroccan can't compare!). as for realpolitik, i admit it was a rather vague statement. i didn't say, though, that they were successful, merely that they are practising it at this point in time. for instance, the US tends to form alliances with like-minded cultures, esp. the anglo saxon ones. meanwhile, i don't think france is seeking out catholic or francophone partners: by realpolitik, i mean france is willing to consider purely strategic imperatives at the present moment. thus, we cannot rule out a french alliance with china or russia, while the US, obviously, would probably not warm up to the chinese as fast. hope this clears things up; anyway, don't take what i say too seriously. i could be completely wrong:)
 
Quote    Reply

Herc the Merc    RE:GoG -c'est un malentendu   6/14/2005 12:39:55 PM
The US will be the most powerful country even after 50 years- simple reason---> Asian immigration will be more than Latino immigration(from Mexico etc), the laws in the US will have been changed to let university degreed individyuals in like a tourist visa. What is dynamic about America is this flow of hardworking young hordes- if immigration is stopped America will be tooo old in 50 years and stumble, but FRance is also aging, and does not have a good plan to overcome that weakness- you need more immigration or you will perish, witness the software/dotcom era - Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, Yahoo are all American staffed by a lot of Indians- FRance does not have that capacity to scale up, hence after Rafale what?? After Airbus?? Ancient culture is dangerous --- look at Egypt & Osama.
 
Quote    Reply

ShallowThinker1    RE: immigrants and French realpolitik   6/14/2005 12:42:46 PM
GoG, Thanks for a very engaging discussion. On the matter of immigrants from Asia, at least in the US, the cultural gap between them and the US in general is huge. European, even central European such as slavs, and even Russians, don't have nearly as large a gap. This alters the speed and nature of assimilation - it goes more slowly and is probably never quite as deeply "complete". One-hundred percent "americanization" is not a requirement, however. There is no such thing. I suspect Indians have an "easier" time of it. This is just based upon my contacts. Despite the pressures on their own culture Indian immigrants seem to "enjoy" the US. That's nebulous, I understand, but it seems true. Chinese are always difficult to judge. They never seem to blend in as much but I'm not sure that that is any indication of anything particular troublesome. I have to rely on what people with broader exposure than I have have observed. As an example, I was chatting with a friend who has long exposure in China (Taiwan, HK, and now PRC) and was mentioning that Chinese immigrants didn't seem to blend in well - they seemed to just work and never "socialize" much. His comment was that Chinese are that way in China. They work. They are always working at something - always. I can't say. Back to Your Friends the French ;) for instance, the US tends to form alliances with like-minded cultures, esp. the anglo saxon ones. meanwhile, i don't think france is seeking out catholic or francophone partners: by realpolitik, i mean france is willing to consider purely strategic imperatives at the present moment. thus, we cannot rule out a french alliance with china or russia, while the US, obviously, would probably not warm up to the chinese as fast. This goes a LONG way to helping explain things. I don't claim that the US is not driven by interests and advantages and such. Nor do I claim that France is driven purely by interests and advantages and such. But, generally speaking, the US inclination is toward "friendship". As an example, US and UK or Oz interests are not always aligned and the relationship is frequently far from perfect. But the US, as a general rule, would view the UK and Oz as "friends" and would behave accordingly. The description you provide of France, however, suggests that international relationships are a "game of chess" to them. Moves are always made with some strategic intent in mind. And therein lies the fatal flaw in their methods. If France views its relationships with other nations as nothing more than whatever strategic value is in play they will receive nothing more, or less, from those they engage with. The French will team with the Russians as long as it makes strategic sense and when it no longer does, either for the French or the Russians, so much for that. I don't mind folks playing chess but I have to say that should their game of chess endanger me or my friends I'm gonna kick over the chess board. The French think they're playing chess and that Americans are too stupid to understand the game. The US isn't playing a game - this world is for real and for keeps - and we wish the French all the best fun playing their game. No wonder we piss them off so much. They think this is a game, a contest, and we're not even paying attention to their contest/game. They think they can win and get some trophy or something and we're just living life - no trophies, no winners, only do or no do, Luke.
 
Quote    Reply

Herc the Merc    RE:We won we have NOSTRADAMUS-TDidier   6/14/2005 12:44:43 PM
Bad news for you TD - Nostra predicted FRance will be overrun by the King of the mongols or someone like that. Also did you know that a French pilot broke the worlds highest flight for an Helicopter- his name was TDidier-is that u??
 
Quote    Reply

ShallowThinker1    RE:We won we have NOSTRADAMUS-TDidier   6/14/2005 12:50:53 PM
Herc, Its been a while since I brushed up on my Nostradamus, but I think you have it close to correct. I think it was something about the French perishing, penniless and friendless, lost among the Monguls or Mings or somesuch.
 
Quote    Reply

ShallowThinker1    More opening for France re: Russia   6/14/2005 1:05:56 PM
BW, Yet more opportunity for you guys to get even cozier with the Russians! Seems US/Russia relationships are even more strained: link I have to ask, though. What were these Russians doing cutting cash deals directly with the Saddam? All that UNSCAM/OFF money was supposed to pass through French banks so you guys could have your cut, wasn't it? Well, you know what that dumb US president once said, "Trust but verify." I'm sure the Russians didn't mean any harm by it all.
 
Quote    Reply

Herc the Merc    The new map of Europe- the coming invasion   6/14/2005 1:13:23 PM
Will FRance & Germany be occupied by Russia or China... in 50 years US Euro relations hit a new low- it could happen
 
Quote    Reply

Herc the Merc    Le Bourget airshow   6/14/2005 1:35:18 PM
Anyone visit...
 
Quote    Reply

TDidier    RE:We won_Herc   6/14/2005 4:07:58 PM
"Bad news for you TD - Nostra predicted FRance will be overrun by the King of the mongols or someone like that." He predicted so many thing about a big war in France, wide destruction, blood rivers, etc... But he said to that a great king will come and win, a french with probable iranian origins (but linked to Clovis dinasty) and so many other things, at the end, world government will belong to him... Ps: the great enemies of this war will be the "aquilonarians", the sons of the eagle. "Also did you know that a French pilot broke the worlds highest flight for an Helicopter- his name was TDidier-is that u??" It's not me. About le Bourget air-show (Paris air show), I've not planned to go. To much work during the week and too much people during week-end. I lived in a NATO training zone, then I've seen enougth warplanes for three or four lives.
 
Quote    Reply

Herc the Merc    RE:We won_Herc   6/14/2005 4:14:28 PM
I knew Iran will be the next empire....they will take Iraq next after civil war...but how could Iran end up in France???
 
Quote    Reply



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2012StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy