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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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gixxxerking    More Propaganda from FS   5/18/2005 12:47:32 PM
FS you never cease to amaze! LOL... "Clutter, jamming and flight paths along Rafale qualities (steathiness as drop tank have been jetisoned before behing in range of Egyptian radars, Spectra) will for sure allow it to enter undetected in the 100 last miles at least (if not the 50)." --FS ---LOL your off the meds today I see. FS its pointless to debate this Rafale "Silver Bullet" mission any futher with you. If your mind is made up it would work then thats your fault. Im sure you know that you are the only believer in this planned silver bullet raid. And since its obvious you are grabbing at straws. Let me throw yet another mistake in your face. Are you going to fly jettison the tanks before crossing Libya, Sudan and Eritria and fly low for severl hundred miles? If so that means you are planning to do air to air refueling over those nations to get inland to the E-2C correct? Or do you intend to take a fuel efficient cruising altitude over nuetral countries? Whats your flight profile? hi-lo-hi, Hi-hi-hi, lo-lo-lo? Do you even think about this stuff first? You only just barely have the fuel for one of the profiles. I'll let you figure out which one. I left a clue for you. "We will use the offensive jammer few times before to make E2C crews unable to know if it is a real raid or not." --FS ---LOL FS what a joke. Egypt doesnt have to watch your Jammers. Its much Easier to watch the CdG, airfields and your KC-135s. FS this is madness. War is about combinations. You only have one combination of moves to carry out even this failed attack. YOUR FORCE IS TOO THIN ON LOGISTICS TO FEINT OR RUSE EFFECTIVELY.
 
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french stratege    RE:not Propaganda but reality from FS   5/18/2005 2:09:04 PM
"Its much Easier to watch the CdG, airfields and your KC-135s. FS this is madness. War is about combinations". Egypt can not maintain 2EC2 all the time in flight either with 4 or 6 aircrafts during months. If E2C is out of Egypt , how will they locate low flying aircrafts? A Rafale can be refueled in low flying by KC135 or Superetendard or others (buddy refueling). A Rafale can carry 5 tanks up to 12500 liters more.Enought to come directly for France , go low at last 200 miles form Egyptian border under radar cover, drop their tank before they come in detection range of E2C, approach at low level using terrain masking, then M2000 behind start to jamm E2C (we know perfectly its radar to program jammer) with offensive jammer and Rafale do still 100 miles unoticed, are detected at 100 miles then manoeuver to shot its escort of old F16 block52 which can not fight it in BVR at 50 miles (unable to lock) then shot down E2 .20 Rafale=160 mica or maybe will we use an anti awac weapon?
 
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gixxxerking    More Punishment   5/18/2005 2:41:38 PM
""Its much Easier to watch the CdG, airfields and your KC-135s. FS this is madness. War is about combinations". Egypt can not maintain 2EC2 all the time in flight either with 4 or 6 aircrafts during months. If E2C is out of Egypt , how will they locate low flying aircrafts? A Rafale can be refueled in low flying by KC135 or Superetendard or others (buddy refueling). A Rafale can carry 5 tanks up to 12500 liters more.Enought to come directly for France , go low at last 200 miles form Egyptian border under radar cover, drop their tank before they come in detection range of E2C, approach at low level using terrain masking, then M2000 behind start to jamm E2C (we know perfectly its radar to program jammer) with offensive jammer and Rafale do still 100 miles unoticed, are detected at 100 miles then manoeuver to shot its escort of old F16 block52 which can not fight it in BVR at 50 miles (unable to lock) then shot down E2 .20 Rafale=160 mica or maybe will we use an anti awac weapon?" --FS First of all Egypt doesnt have to have the E-2C up at all times in this scenario. Thats a highly wasteful and inefficient tactic for Egypt which has good GCI and other means to allow the E-2C to focus on your route. I was going to say most likely route but your route is well known due to distance and geography. Second how many bombs or missiles does a Rafale laden with 5 drop tanks carry? Not 160 MICA...lol. A question I'll leave to you. Also theres a catch to the term "Drop Tank". Gone forever after you jettison. I dont know what your stock pile is. But I assure you that you cant jettison too many and continue to fight. And thanks for the RCS increase. Third, Stop saying Egypt cant get a lock on your planes. Jesus. You dont have ANY EVIDENCE to suggest this and futher more you dont have a stealth plane. Your Rafale has decent RCS reduction from the front which makes it a little better than F-16s at getting first look. FROM THE FRONT. But the F-16 Squadron commanders know this and will set up intercepts to counter this. In addition the AWACS and GCI, not to mention SAMs, will help. Using a multi-prong intercept AT least one of the groups sensors will see you and be able to fire. Fourth, going low at 200 miles? Take a look at a MAP FS. That puts your KC-135 OVER HOSTILE AIRSPACE!!!! Fifth. So I guess the EN vessels acting as a screen along your route in the MED have no chance of detecting you. And alerting the EAF. FS you really need to think this through. Im killing your plan dead without even trying. And please spare us the not so "secret weapon" that kills AWACs from 300km BS. Otherwise the EN will deploy there secretly purchased Oscar II SSGN with nuke warheads on you.
 
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glenponder    Airbus tankers   5/18/2005 3:42:23 PM
FS airbus isnt a completly french company its a multi national where britain has a significant steak so you dont supply britain with tankers(we are going back a few posts now). what would the legal ramifications be for britain exporting the wings to france for your shiney new tankers be and would the british govt want to go to court over a french war. what is the legalities of britain exporting war material to france and those wings will be war material if they are going into FAF tankers.
 
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french stratege    glennponder why such a reply   5/18/2005 6:18:03 PM
glennponder: we design airbus in Toulouse and we can susbtitute to UK subcontractors when we want if they stop to deliver.Moreover EH101 engine are mainly French, Storm Shadow is produced in France as ASTER, or as meteor autodirector.It would no be a good idea for UK to put an embargo and why would UK doing that?
 
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gixxxerking    RE:glennponder why such a reply   5/18/2005 6:44:14 PM
USA PRESSURE FS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just like in 1956! But if you read my post. You would see that I have already told you this!
 
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glenponder    RE:glennponder why such a reply   5/19/2005 3:34:02 PM
i didnt mean it against france i was just wondering if the UK was neutral would we habe to stop expoerting airbus wings to france if they are going to be used in tankers for the FAF. I was just wondering. your tankers are critical to your plan FS if the UK cant export war material to you and the factory for the wings is in wales where are you going to build them. nothing against france. just curious as to what the legal implications would be. US pressure could be the reason. the uk may even side with egypt. i have no idea it hypothetical. im sure that the UK has the ability to produce ASTER etc as we have a share in the development as with almost everything else in your post. as i was saying it was just a question. dont take it to heart.
 
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Bluewings    RE:OPFOR needs a new Commander   5/19/2005 5:07:33 PM
Generalisimixxx has fallen , Egypt needs a new Commander to resist the French attack . Any Volunteer welcome :-) ex-98C ? ;-) Cheers .
 
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ex-98C    RE:OPFOR needs a new Commander   5/19/2005 6:15:17 PM
But of course, how could I turn my back on my nation in its hour of need? I know that the people are in shock having heard the news that our dear leader accidentally stabbed himself 337 times. But now is not the time to mourn, not with the ravening French at the gates. Rally my people and we shall emerge victorious!
 
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gf0012-aust    OPFOR needs a new devils advocate.. - Bluewings   5/19/2005 6:24:42 PM
I was going to suggest that you should take up the mantle.. that would yield some interesting game plans. mainly because FS is usually a big picture bystander and you tend to immerse in different detail. 2 different approaches so to speak..
 
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