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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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Agammenon    Worlds best Restaurants ????   4/27/2005 8:21:00 AM
Which nation has the worlds best Restaurants in 2005? England of course. link
 
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Agammenon    RE:France as No.1 Civilisation?   4/27/2005 8:44:50 AM
Quote[the idiot] OK here goes:--- (1)Biggest plane - A380- beauty they may even have a discotheque haha. (2)Alcohol- British - Scotch, US->Bourborn, Germany-> Beer, Japan->Sake, India/China-> Well i better not say, Islamic world-> water, Roman empire-> the blood of prisoners, France -> Hennesey Cognac. Again France is #1. (3) Food-> Britain-> Fish & Chips, I can't believe this is a national dish- no wonder they all ran away from England to seek India, US-> Big Mac & Steak, China/India varied- India definitely lots of Choices, Japan->Sushi, Roman Empire->Cannibalism and Orgies and puking urns, FRance-> Foie Gras, Escargot to excellent pastries and tons of dishes #1 again(India is #2 here) (4) Art-> Well UK-> Another joke here - they stole most of it, US-> Not much, USSR-> Some, Roman Empire->Thieves again, China-> not Much, FRance- well the list is endless (India again #2 here) (5) Beautiful City-> USA-> SF (not bad I live here), UK-> ???, China/India-??, Some European cities yes, Japan ->??, France has Paris. (6) Women-> If you have dated women from the world, the FRench are easily the sweetest and easier and fun. The average American girl wants to rob me. (7) Cars-> Germany & Italy easily rule here. (8) Clothes -> Italy is #1, France is #2 (9) Language-> French is the best sounding language followed by Urdu (an Indo-Arab language). (10) Technology # 2 after US, but not bad comparing size of population. (11) Achievement of secular democracy-> France #1. (12) Trains-> France in top 3. Where would you rather be on a weekend-> Paris with your wife and girlfriend ..top spot I bet!! So,how come the French feel so inferior to the Brits? Crecy, Poitiers, Agincourt, La Hougue, Blenheim, Oudenarde, Ramilles, Malplaquet, Quiberon Bay, Quebec, Minden, Aboukir, Trafalgar, Busaco, Salamanca, Vitoria, Niville, Quatra Bras, Waterloo. And that's not the half of it. Between 1680 and 1815 France lost six major wars aginst a nation with 1/3 the population.That's a fact, and the reason we all speak English. :P
 
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Agammenon    RE:A380 French???????   4/27/2005 10:15:01 AM
Are you sure, herc the Merc???? Actually it's multi-national, with over 50% of it made in Britain, inc wings and engines. link
 
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ShallowThinker1    RE:FS/Gixx showdown-GOG   4/27/2005 11:04:06 AM
JIMF, Armageddon Twins I like that. I'll toss The Two Typists of the Apocalypse into the contest. To deviate back to some stuff earlier in the thread, I'm still very confused about why France is attacking India and so many asian nations. What did India do to France? Did they launch a national "Bangalore Project" to buy up the world's French restaraunts and convert them to Indian restaraunts? Did COnde Nast give out too many five star ratings to Indian cuisine? Why would anyone other than China want to go rampaging around India and southeast asia?
 
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jhaley    RE:French world power   4/27/2005 11:09:00 AM
France is in the top ten (3-6 to close to call), I would give England the slight nod over France due to actual combat experience. France needs to overcome some major problems (all previously discussed), Germany will take 5 or 10 years to recover from there self inflicted economic problems. South Korea, India and Australia or all emerging major players. Japan with a new military outlook would become a major player and is currently second only to the US in the Pacific. We will know about China in the next 10 yrs, there economy is starting to strain and the average Chinese are becoming aware of the rest of the world and wants there individual piece of the pie. That puts France at the top of its game now and for the next dozen years or so, then the frogs will be pushed to the bottom of the top ten.
 
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ShallowThinker1    RE:France   4/27/2005 11:30:07 AM
bsl, A beggar will never appreciate what you give him. To his way of thinking it is your fault that he's a bum and a beggar. If you give him $1 he'll curse you (under his breath of course) because it wasn't $100. If you dedicate all the necessary resources to feed him, clean him up, get him rehab and education, and set him up in business where he becomes a wildly successful millionaire he'll forever hate you for intervening and destroying his "authenticity" and free-choice while, with every second breath, proclaiming his successes and achievements as fully due to the fruits of his own labor and cleverness. Frenchman like FS don't look out over the graveyards of Normandy filled with American dead and think, "Thank you for helping me recover my nation from the Nazis." He looks out over them and is angered that they are there at all and, at the same time, that there aren't ten times as many. He doesn't see what France is today, he conjures images of what it would be if only those vile Americans hadn't dropped their bombs. He doesn't think about the loathesomeness of the Nazis, he only assumes that the wonderous influences of France and her culture would have subdued that savage beast who wasn't, after all, nearly as bad as history claims anyway. And when all those thoughts pass he imagines world-wide grand alliances to chain and whip the vile American HyperHegemon. He will launch grand schemes to use blackmail, bribery, threats and corrupt deals with viscious tyrants far and wide that will convince India and China of his obvious economic, cultural, and military superiority and they will gleefully and gratefully submit to French leadership. It is, after all, only in their best interests. And they call Americans arrogant!
 
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PeregrinePike    On culture -Agammemnon   4/27/2005 11:48:27 AM
"(1)Biggest plane - A380- beauty they may even have a discotheque haha." -- Bigger than one of those Antovs?... out of curiosity ;-) "(2)Alcohol- British - Scotch, US->Bourborn, Germany-> Beer, Japan->Sake, India/China-> Well i better not say, Islamic world-> water, Roman empire-> the blood of prisoners, France -> Hennesey Cognac. Again France is #1." -- Indians have sh!tty local drinks like arrack and toddy now... but there were days of soma and sura thats were supposed to make you near-gods, or berserkers. So the general concensus is on scotch and gin. - China practically invented beers and most wines... and suddently lost taste. "(3) Food-> Britain-> Fish & Chips, I can't believe this is a national dish- no wonder they all ran away from England to seek India, US-> Big Mac & Steak, China/India varied- India definitely lots of Choices, Japan->Sushi, Roman Empire->Cannibalism and Orgies and puking urns, FRance-> Foie Gras, Escargot to excellent pastries and tons of dishes #1 again(India is #2 here)" -- I would add Iran here... though their choices for vegetarian food is limited, their pastries and desserts are up there with the best - if you like it rich. - My fav Western dessert is Black Forest... is that German like the actual place? "(4) Art-> Well UK-> Another joke here - they stole most of it, US-> Not much, USSR-> Some, Roman Empire->Thieves again, China-> not Much, FRance- well the list is endless (India again #2 here)" -- You forgot Italy... after Romans that is. I find the Dutch masters pretty good too. Indians have music, theater and minature paintings (plus sculptures a special mention)... but too few full paintings per se. "(5) Beautiful City-> USA-> SF (not bad I live here), UK-> ???, China/India-??, Some European cities yes, Japan ->??, France has Paris." -- Japan - Osaka... some of the smaller Brazilian cities are fabulous to look at from the air, at least. "(6) Women-> If you have dated women from the world, the FRench are easily the sweetest and easier and fun. The average American girl wants to rob me." -- Yeah, and Americans dont mind putting up signs saying so ;-) "(7) Cars-> Germany & Italy easily rule here." -- Too expensive, and ready-made... Jap cars for drag racing, preferably tuned. "(9) Language-> French is the best sounding language followed by Urdu (an Indo-Arab language)." -- Depends on the ratio of Turkish to Persian... more you have Turkish and Punjabi harsher it gets, and vice-versa. The Sanskrit component is just there to make a speaker feel elite and educated ;-) "(10) Technology # 2 after US, but not bad comparing size of population." -- Japnese for techonology, Germany for sciences... in early 19th C France ruled both. "(11) Achievement of secular democracy-> France #1." -- Not that hard of an achievement... we shall see soon enough how they can get along with the Muslims ;-) "Where would you rather be on a weekend-> Paris with your wife and girlfriend ..top spot I bet!!" -- Its only a hop across the channel for you, we have to jump the entire pond... and with US $ hitting new lows, its kind of becomming painful to see euro ever again. "So,how come the French feel so inferior to the Brits?" -- Do they actually feel inferior?... cummon give some dirt on your trans-channel relations. "Crecy, Poitiers, Agincourt, La Hougue, Blenheim, Oudenarde, Ramilles, Malplaquet, Quiberon Bay, Quebec, Minden, Aboukir, Trafalgar, Busaco, Salamanca, Vitoria, Niville, Quatra Bras, Waterloo. And that's not the half of it." -- Who was the last conqueror of England again?... On a side note, why are Anglo-American elite called WASPs when they would have been technically below the Norman dominated nobility in England? "Between 1680 and 1815 France lost six major wars aginst a nation with 1/3 the population.That's a fact, and the reason we all speak English. :P" -- Oh, whats your relationship with Germans now?... many French historians actually show it as a Germanic bullying of poor Gaul and other Celtic people. - And until you sstarted calling Germans Huns, didnt English consider them like the closest friends and agrreable fellows?
 
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oldbutnotwise    RE:On culture -Agammemnon   4/27/2005 12:06:50 PM
"Crecy, Poitiers, Agincourt, La Hougue, Blenheim, Oudenarde, Ramilles, Malplaquet, Quiberon Bay, Quebec, Minden, Aboukir, Trafalgar, Busaco, Salamanca, Vitoria, Niville, Quatra Bras, Waterloo. And that's not the half of it." -- Who was the last conqueror of England again?... to be acurrate the were the normans not the french and as such were closer to the vikings food:- there are some fantastic english dishes, the reputation of poor english food is a rement of the hardships of rationing we had to suffer in ww2 plus a lot of "indian" food was for the engish art? uk - turner the first impressionist, constable techonogy? the french record is goofd but so is the uk and the uk has a better record at making it work. music ok they can have dion please take her please please please alcohol uk - scotch the true sprit a proper mans drink, beer some of the worlds finest city - london would be a lot better if we could get rid of the tourists, yes prais is pretty thats easy when you have a capital that you can flattern and re build london had the problem of being the worlds busiest port, the centre of finance and one of the major centre of science for a large part of its history, it couldnt be cleared and rebuilt like nappy did with paris yet look at some of the building we have, st pauls - parliment/BIG BEN (the most reckonised seat of govenemt after the white house) - buck house - the georgian/edwardian/victorian/ eliabethian housing
 
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PeregrinePike    RE:On culture -Agammemnon   4/27/2005 12:18:19 PM
"it couldnt be cleared and rebuilt like nappy did with paris" -- Why not?... after Peterloo didnt it occur to anyone :-P... did you have to wait till '48? Just being a wise@ss. "yet look at some of the building we have, st pauls - parliment/BIG BEN (the most reckonised seat of govenemt after the white house) - buck house -" -- I really cant, atleast not without Thames in the background.... its kind of like Capitol, you have to see it in the context. WH can be seen independently, and either recognized as THE White House or, if you play with scales an imitation found all over Northern Virginia.
 
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Herc the Merc    Oh tut tut let the French have their day.....   4/27/2005 12:19:12 PM
If we upset them further they will create another superpower China, remeber it was the FRench that helped create America...now they will create China. Thats a #1 power broker. Well I have to agree France fails on a few fronts like Music, Cars, & Taxes- but overall they are still the truly independent power for several centuries in a row and still standing with 600 nukes - thats test of time, UK comes close but it is too much of an American client state geo-politically.
 
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