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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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Bluewings    RE:Gixx 's lies   5/9/2005 4:56:39 PM
In fact , in UK and Oz , you 're a Tosser lol ! Cheers .
 
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french stratege    Jodhpur    5/9/2005 5:02:00 PM
It is a one to one scenario.not France vs the rest of world. More over did other Arabs countries helped Egypt in 56? Did other arabs countries helped Saddam? PS: the Chad corps use wheeled whehicules.And this ground did not even prevent Rommel to adavance 2000 km in WW2! In Iraq GW1 you travel on track with trucks with M1 on it on the same distances. Every answers are on prejugés: only US are a superpower so only US can do that.
 
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glenponder    FS   5/9/2005 5:07:19 PM
are you sending the entire french navy. Im dont have a clue as to the numbers of what the frence armed forces have, but what you sound like is you are giving totals. as if i was to list the entire royal navy. Where are your forces being used for peace keeping, homeland securitly, coastal defence, anti terror etc. how are you going to keep up your other commitments outside of you med adventure. please let me know how much of the FN FAF and army are going to be deployed. please bare(sp) in mind that the UK kept up it NATO commitments etc (maby the US temporarily took over some.) anyway just asking. cheers
 
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gixxxerking    Bluewings   5/9/2005 5:10:06 PM
First of all you are an ignorant little Buzzard(figure out what I really mean). I see when challenged you revert back to your normal self. Beating you in a debate is all to easy.
 
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french stratege    glenponder I anwer   5/9/2005 5:21:35 PM
-I send the med fleet only (but the stronguest part of our navy), leaving away surveillance frigate and SSBN protection fleet. -Air force: 200 older aircaft are still in France as 2 awacs : M2000c, mirage F1 to protect air space as bases air defenses. -Army: the most mobile and newest part is send: for men 90 000 men and most recnet equipment. Remains in France 1332 AMX30 B/2 (in depots) but can be reactivated similar to M60A1/A3, older artillery and Ground to air launchers, one third of recent light armor and non digitalized units. In fact what is remaining in France is stronguer than twice Iraq in GW2. Our our total forces (in 1000 men) are: Active (reserves) in in 1000 men Army: 137 200 Airforce: 60 20 Navy: 42 20 Gensarmerie; 99 100 Gendarmerie is a territorial army made with professional doing police task in peace time and also war task in wartime (even they field armored units) Plus civilians so we can field at maximum 650 000 men And we use 90 000 from army and 60 000 from other services. And we don't have any threat in Europe contrary for exemple in Vietnam where the threat of Stalin Russia prevented our army to reinforce it.
 
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french stratege    RE:glenponder I anwer   5/9/2005 5:29:19 PM
I hope you undertood my previous post: ground army has 137000 men active and 200 000 reserve.Active force are 443 000 men but there is 80 000 civilians for support.First quality reserve (trained) is about 100 000.Other are most former military professional which have leaved service in the last ten years.
 
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Bluewings    RE:???--Bluewings   5/9/2005 5:42:06 PM
Jodhpur , your points does not stand . One by one : 1)Most of France?s expeditionary capability (note I said ?expeditionary?) is geared towards operations in sub-saharan countries. It is not geared to fight a major regional power on their home turf. Your proposed force composition including your one carrier cannot overcome a country like Egypt that has something like 170 F-16A/C/Ds, and has ground forces fielding M1Abrams, AH-64 Apaches, MLRS etc. --> Wrong . We are going to prove it . We already have a case , Egypt hasn 't got one yet . 2) You are counting on a three month build-up in Chad. In the northeastern region of Chad they are no major roads or towns. The roads that may exist will not take tanks or anything above 40Ts, so you?ll be going cross-country. Nor will your tank transports be of any use. They are no roads on your proposed axis of advance. Enjoy the sand surfing, not to mention the unforeseen wonders the sandstorms will do for your optics and advanced fire-control systems over such an extended cross-desert route. Serviceability and maintenance issues? --> Leclerc ~and French Armor in General~ has NO problem in sand . In fact we love it :-) Ask the Arab Emirats , they 'll tell you how good Leclerc is in sand . We trained in Qatar many times , never had a problem ... 3)Following the 3-month build-up you will undertake an amphibious landing on the Mediterranean coast. Your stated goal being to take Alexandria, Suez (and I believe you even said Cairo- lol!). Meanwhile, Egypt will in all likelihood have enlisted the aid of arab and muslim allies in the region such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria or Turkey. It?s not so far fetched considering past history U.A.R etc. Like I mentioned before, countries like Turkey may provide reconnaissance or early-warning facilities. They may even ?reflag? their military assets to Egypt as Gixx suggested. --> We said it was France vs Egypt . Now if you want to make it an international affair , it is another story ... 4) What about the economic costs of the war. How are you going to pay for it? What will your EU partners think of your little Mediterranean romp? --> did Money stopped any Country to go to War , or to sustain War ?? No . Europeans knows that better that anyone , we had 2 World Wars down here ... Je ne reve pas mon Ami ! Please , sit back and look at the big picture and the Forces in presence ... If the $hit was hitting the fan , France could send her ENTIRE Army by Ships to wherever she pleased ! Our Civilian Fleet is simply HUGE , and I mean HUGE . If Egypt started to "score" few good hits , it wouldn 't matter at all as France would keep sending $hit over there until we own every grain of sand . The Foreign Legion by HERSELF ~8000 Men~ could take Alexandria and hold it against all odds . Let 's be "Westerners" shall we ? Middle-East Forces ~besides Israel~ sucks . Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE:Bluewings   5/9/2005 5:44:14 PM
lol Gixxx ... Not much to say , do you ... Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE:To Gixxx   5/9/2005 6:07:19 PM
You know man , since I met you on theses Forums , I 've learned an awfull lot about US materials . Simply because I have to check everything you say . Saying stuff like "HARM come screaming in toward your fleet With a speed of Mach 4+" made me stop and think . In fact , I know now that you DREAM about litterally hundreds of missiles heading toward the FN at unbelievable speed ~sillverbullet/Mach syndrome~ tearing the French Fleet into pieces because it pleases your Ego . Reality is a different matter Gixxx . Keep your feet on the ground , check what you say , verify it twice if needed and be a worthy opponent please , for all of us here ;-) Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    RE:To Gixxx   5/9/2005 6:23:03 PM
Take your own advice or you can keep getting the piss beat ou tof you in these little debates. You and FS, both French, are the only believers in your cause. Oh well. So be it. But the fact still stands that France does not have the ability to take on Egypt. You can flounder around calling names making wild proclaimation but NO ONE here would feel safe in the French fleet in such a scenario. FS is now saying he will not come any closer to Egypt than 700 miles. Why do you think that is? And yes bluewings. The HARM is much much faster than Mach 1.
 
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