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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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gixxxerking    Gixxx to FS - Hypothesis is French force 2009   4/26/2005 2:26:32 PM
FS I am interested in your scenario. Please choose your opponent and objective from the following: "- countries we can invade or hit strongly:Singapore, Egypt, Vietnam, Iran or Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Vietnam and Iran are the most difficult scenarios but feasible according time and conditions.If not feasible it fall in next category. 2 - countries we can humiliate, damage their navy and threaten/blockade their commerce by sea warfare: India, Pakistan, N. Korea, S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, " You play France and I will play the OPFOR. This is a UNILATERAL French action. Since you want to play superpower you now have to deal with the reality of an inept U.N. and a time sensitive mission that doesnt allow for coalition building. I will allow for the Hypothetical French force you suggest in the 2009 timeframe which is: "Hypothesis is French force 2009. I detail here main components: 1 CVN , 2 Mistral LPH, 2 LPD, 3 Horizon with Aster 30, 1 cassard, 4 E3F, 3 E2C, 30 Rafale M navy, 40 Rafale Air, 280 m2000 C/D/N, 50 modernized Super Etendard, 10 top ASW frigate, 6 SSN, 38 Lynx ASW, 28 Atlantic NG2, 4 orchidée helos, 15 light frigate/corvettes (can be improved in 3 months adding better air defense), 500 helos, 102 Transport/Tanker aircrafts. Notably in ammunitions: hundred of cruise missiles, 4000 bonus shells, 3000 AASM PGM In special reserve and recrewed in 3 to 6 months: 4 SSK, 2 air defense frigate, 1 LPH, 3 LSD, 400 older aircraft in case (Jaguar, F1CT, SuperEtendard, MIV reco), 540 AMX30B2, 150 AUF1 Men reserve :Navy reserves, air force reserve pilots who do 80 hours a year, SSN/SSBN reserve crews. Quick refit: extending our five Lafayettes to get 5 additional ASW frigates will full ASW capacities."
 
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Bluewings    RE:Gixxx to FS - Hypothesis is French force 2009   4/26/2005 2:51:26 PM
If both "Wargamers" FS and Gixxx can stay on topic with facts and courtesy , we 're here for an interesting War Game :-) Cheers .
 
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Herc the Merc    French Recon   4/26/2005 3:45:38 PM
Can FRance detect a ballistic missile launch or approach to its shores with enuff time to retaliate.
 
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tiff    RE:Gixxx to FS - Hypothesis is French force 2009   4/26/2005 3:47:17 PM
If you fancy a go at Singapore or Malaysia I'm sure we Brits would enjoy giving you Frenchies a bloody nose under the 'Five Powers Defence Arrangements' along with the Aussies and Kiwi's.
 
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tiff    RE:How rank France in world power?   4/26/2005 4:14:24 PM
"UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV." "Our airforce will have 200 Rafale/M2000 to gain air superiority with 4 AWACs.We outperform UK by 50% and more on gaining airsuperiority ALONE." There are actually 88 Tornado F3 but let's not quibble about such things, funny that you should call a mid eighties aircraft 'old' especially when the Mirage 2000 is roughly the same generation. In the same timescale you speak of the UK will procure 150 F35 and 232 EF Typhoon and already have 7 Sentry AEW/AWACS. Where does this 50% superiority figure come from unless you mean in favour of the RAF?
 
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Norvicension    RE:France as No.1 Civilisation?   4/26/2005 4:37:50 PM
"Besides the food, arts, music, architecture beat any civilization that came by." - Herc Interesting pont of view - perhaps you could expand on this? I'm not seeking to refute your claim, but this is something of an interest of mine and I'd like to hear the reasoning behind your argument. Many regards Norvicension.
 
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Ehran    RE:France as No.1 Civilisation?   4/26/2005 4:43:59 PM
please tell me this doesn't include that wretched excuse for food nouvelle cuisine.
 
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Herc the Merc    RE:France as No.1 Civilisation?   4/26/2005 5:04:01 PM
OK here goes:--- (1)Biggest plane - A380- beauty they may even have a discotheque haha. (2)Alcohol- British - Scotch, US->Bourborn, Germany-> Beer, Japan->Sake, India/China-> Well i better not say, Islamic world-> water, Roman empire-> the blood of prisoners, France -> Hennesey Cognac. Again France is #1. (3) Food-> Britain-> Fish & Chips, I can't believe this is a national dish- no wonder they all ran away from England to seek India, US-> Big Mac & Steak, China/India varied- India definitely lots of Choices, Japan->Sushi, Roman Empire->Cannibalism and Orgies and puking urns, FRance-> Foie Gras, Escargot to excellent pastries and tons of dishes #1 again(India is #2 here) (4) Art-> Well UK-> Another joke here - they stole most of it, US-> Not much, USSR-> Some, Roman Empire->Thieves again, China-> not Much, FRance- well the list is endless (India again #2 here) (5) Beautiful City-> USA-> SF (not bad I live here), UK-> ???, China/India-??, Some European cities yes, Japan ->??, France has Paris. (6) Women-> If you have dated women from the world, the FRench are easily the sweetest and easier and fun. The average American girl wants to rob me. (7) Cars-> Germany & Italy easily rule here. (8) Clothes -> Italy is #1, France is #2 (9) Language-> French is the best sounding language followed by Urdu (an Indo-Arab language). (10) Technology # 2 after US, but not bad comparing size of population. (11) Achievement of secular democracy-> France #1. (12) Trains-> France in top 3. Where would you rather be on a weekend-> Paris with your wife and girlfriend ..top spot I bet!!
 
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gixxxerking    C'mon FS. French citizens are being murdered in the streets. Time is running out...   4/26/2005 7:25:12 PM
From Some Liberal Reporter CNN Washington Bureau Sunday, April 26, 2006 Posted: 5:56 PM EDT (2156 GMT) French Citizens murdered in the streets during large scale riots. The French Embassy was destroyed just hours ago in an assault by angry mobs. The All Powerful, All Knowing, Provider of All things Good, Protector of the People, Illustrious, Courageous, Fabulous, Wonderful and Great Leader Gixxx has proclaimed "no foriegn intervention will be tolerated. Especially if its French. The Furnaces of Hell are open to all who dare intervene. And the Hottest one is reserved for France. Futhermore, the fiercest warriors and patriots await any would be intervention. But they get worked into an even greater frenzy at the thought of a nation like France sending troops." As the world waits to see how France will react, more French people are being hunted down where ever they are found. As usual the U.N. is still debating what to do. The EU is locked in political disagreement. It is now up to FS to save his citizens and French interest.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:C'mon FS. French citizens are being murdered in the streets. Time is running out...   4/26/2005 7:26:22 PM
ooops...Wrong date. Corrected below: Sunday, April 26, 2009 Posted: 5:56 PM EDT (2156 GMT)
 
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