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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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french stratege    ASW   5/7/2005 7:25:23 PM
I agree with Ehran on ASW except 4 SSN hunting separatly adding Atlantic G2. It is better to get screen around task force. Avisos A69 on active sonar will add for ASW in shallow water crossing sicilia straight, then for the landing 2 months after.
 
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TXAggie93    FS and Logistics ex-98C An invasion from Chad would insure France loses!   5/7/2005 7:30:01 PM
ex-98 I agree with you FS could not pull off the logistics of an invasion from Chad. He has not factored in the weather which could greatly reduce the speed at which his supplies make it to the front lines. Plus the man power he would need to load it on ships, off ships and on to trains, off trains to trucks and trucks to troops would be very costly to his force. Plus the number of supply trucks need to run convoys would be staggering with a supply run of over 1200 miles round trip figure 40 mph avg would take inexcess of 30 hrs round trip. You need to factor in rest time, load & unload time, maintence, fueling time and meals. An invasion from Chad would insure France loses!
 
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french stratege    RE:Logistic: Ex 98C   5/7/2005 7:37:24 PM
It was reinforced divisions in Frank corps with sometime four brigades. Moreover you transported a lot of water (to clean vehicules from sand or NBC and for comfort also).You could have done that manually with hands to spare water instead of waterjet.Also the corps moved at fast speed making fuel consumption astonishing compare to WW2 for example (and also a average weight twice).A WW2 division make more often 30 km than 150 in a single day.And US used a lot of ammuntions for overkill which explain small losses. French soldiers will used wet towel to clean themselves instead of showers as they use to in desert to reduce water logistic. French officers were surprised by your logistic and thought your overspend for comfort even more than in WW2 (but US are rich!). Our corps will land on west Egypt and follow initially coast so more easy to support it from sea also.In Iraq US were deep in Saudian desert far away from depots. Ex 98c I think you can agree my estimates now.
 
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french stratege    RE:Ex98c Logistic breakdown   5/7/2005 7:44:55 PM
Landing and first step follow on forces in north west Egypt 60 000 men first step armored corps 1500 AM10 RC/P/VAB 460 Engineer/AUF1/2/Roland/MRLS 320 Leclerc and 288 artillery pieces 9000 Truck/VBL/LightVehicules 73 000 rolling tons of armored vehicules 2100 tons of fuel /day for armored 62 000 rolling tons of other vehicules 2000 tons of fuel /day for non armored 135 000 total rolling tons of vehicules 800 tons water/food 250 Helos 1100 tons/day 5100 tons of fuel per day 9000 tons per day with 3000 tons/day ammunitions Chad corps 88 000 rolling tons of armored/non armored vehicules 1150 AMX10 RC/VAB/VBCI 250 AMX10 RC 96 Caesar and 72 TR155 40 Leclerc 24 MRLS 6000 Truck/VBL/LightVehicules 300 Helos 4200 tons fuel 560 tons water/food 1200 tons ammunitions 6000 tons per day Grand total 15 000 tons/day.
 
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TXAggie93    french stratege what's your convoy speed going to be?   5/7/2005 8:01:39 PM
FS Ok whats your convoy speed going to be? How many tracked vehicles? How many wheeled vechicles? How many tankers are you going to have? What is the quality of these roads? I think they are un improved and will get worse as even the lighter French troops drive over it. How many recovery vehicles will you have also? Your going to have to have a lot of tires if those roads are unimproved roads for what looks to be about 1,200 km from Fada to Al Qasr by way the African Sparo flies. What if gixxxerking mines the roads from Chad at choke points along the way? I think a coming from Chad would insure that you lose way to much risk and not enough gain.
 
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Bluewings    RE: Standing down ...   5/7/2005 8:17:48 PM
A bit of honesty never hurt ;-) I think I am not a good enough stratege to dare conducting French Operations .Gimme a Bunch of Commandos instead :-) ! But I 'll help along if I can . Sorry Gixxx , it was fun but it 's not my league . Mine is to put bullets in people heads at 600m ... Cheers .
 
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french stratege    RE:french stratege what's your convoy speed going to be?   5/7/2005 8:20:54 PM
All wheelled but 24 MRSL and 40 leclerc on transports. Transit speed at 60 kph maximum. It is why our army prefer wheelled armor for strategic reasons in Africa.
 
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TXAggie93    FS you don't have enough fuel    5/7/2005 8:24:07 PM
distance looks to be in over 1600 km and you do not what to go into battle on sitting on E. 1150 AMX10 RC/VAB/VBCI 520 Gallons range 800km 1150 number AMX * 520 amount to fillup* 3 fillups= 1794000 gallons needed Weight of 1 gallon of diesel 6.84 pounds (1794000 gallons * 6.84 pounds)/ 2000 lbs/ton = 6135.48 tons for fuel a lone
 
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gixxxerking    A few observations   5/7/2005 8:47:45 PM
The FN cannot decisively control the Med near the AO. The French Military cannot sustain its SLOC to potential landing site. The FN is vulnerable to the EAF anywhere west of Malta. The Entire Egyptian military has numerical superiority in the AO. The EN cannot survive outside of land based air support. France doesnt have the man power or logistics for invasion/occupation. 1 CVN is a liability Egypt should develop nuclear capability for complete invulnerability. Summary: France cannot invade Egypt. In my opinion, I think this has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
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gf0012-aust    French subs - shooter   5/7/2005 8:58:18 PM
"French Subs are almost as loud as Ruski boats" I don't know where you pulled this one from, but it is definitely and decidedly incorrect. Latter French subs are very very good at signature reduction and their crews are not dills either.
 
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