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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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french stratege    RE:How rank France in world power?   5/3/2005 10:08:37 AM
Moreover we founded masonery, and we still keep the secrets of Isis temple! Egyptian are defenseless! LOL
 
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Bluewings    RE:How rank France in world power?   5/3/2005 10:27:15 AM
If we setup a US/Iran thread and give Iran to Gixxx , he will manage to beat off the US attack . In a France/Iran thread , give France to Gixxx and Iran will fall in one week . Gixxx is simply dreaming ... Cheers .
 
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blitZ    RE:FS    5/3/2005 11:17:35 AM
"In fact we can CRUSH any latin america or African nation, invade Arabia peninsula or south east asian nations, strike (and destroy their navy) on Iran, China, Pakistan or India without important losses." --FS Just out of curiosity, how do you plan to destroy the Indian navy, if say we decide to not meet you in open sea, but instead keep the ships close to mainland under ground based fighter cover ?? i barely have any knowledge on the Indian navy myself, so i wont try to defend it, if you convince me, i will accept it. im just curious.
 
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blitZ    RE:FS    5/3/2005 11:39:58 AM
i can only give you statistics regarding the navy, so if it helps, give me a realistic scenario as to how France might attak the Indian navy. i find it a very interesting scenario. Thanks here is the link for the Indian navy's surface fleet : link this is for the submarine fleet : link fleet air arm (for whatever its worth) : link and that should give you an approx. of the land based aircraft and bases that can be dedicated to fleet protection (note: if you click on the air base buttons it will give you the type of aircraft stationed there): link
 
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Ehran    RE:France / Egypt   5/3/2005 12:13:56 PM
i seem to remember the french shafting or rather trying to shaft the israelis over some patrol boats they built for the israelis then decided not to deliver. while i rather doubt the israelis would resort to open warfare i can certainly see them passing intel and logistical support to the egyptians.
 
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gixxxerking    Bluewings   5/3/2005 1:08:46 PM
"If we setup a US/Iran thread and give Iran to Gixxx , he will manage to beat off the US attack . In a France/Iran thread , give France to Gixxx and Iran will fall in one week . Gixxx is simply dreaming ..." --bluewings You are a jealous little girl. Give me any thread and I will win due to good generalship. If you disagree then play an OPFOR vs Me and take your turn. May the best man win. But that assumes the competition is among men and not boys or in your case women because all you do is add silly insults and degrading comments. I have much respect for French Stratege even in defeat as he manages to not take things too personal and actually CONTRIBUTES something to the discussion. YOU CANT NAME ONE THING YOU CONTRIBUTED besides your foul language and hostility to people you disagree with or who prove you wrong. Be a man like FS and challenge me if you feel you can. Otherwise you are a waste of time.
 
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gixxxerking    FS One improvement deserves another   5/3/2005 1:19:22 PM
If you can be allowed to use equipment you do not have and upgrade your forces beyond your current levels then so too can Egypt. I will post an update to the Egyptian order of battle for 2009. You can not show up to the fight with hundreds of fighters you will not have in 2009, an extra Horizon Frigate, 200 Leos from Germany, EMP bombs ect and say that I have to fight with the Egypt of today. I will counter your upgrades with a few Egyptian ones when I return. Otherwise we will fight with the forces we are likely to have in 2009. BTW- Even in your original equipment list you included things like an extra Horizon, hundreds of extra tanks and PGMs in numbers that far exceed what you will have in 2009 and I fought with todays Egypt and held off your attack. May I suggest that it is not your equipment rather your strategy that needs improvement. You are trying the same thing and expecting to get different results my friend.
 
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french stratege    RE:FS One improvement deserves another   5/3/2005 1:43:35 PM
"then so too can Egypt." Egypt has not our financial reserve and not our industry.Their foreign suppliers can not deliver them in 3 month unless their governement use war time laws for Egypt.More over we will have put the country on embargo and close Bab El mandeb. Like UK in Falkland where workers worked 54 hour a week to finish to construct a ship and refit others, we can do that. Egypt can not blockade us.So use NORMAL hypothesis and not such as Egypt order 1000 F16 from US and are delivered in 3 months.What they can do its boost their indigenuous (very few and not high tech ) capcities.Men also need to have been trained before on same model of equipments at least for planes, helos, were reaction time is very few or when it is too technical (ECM, radars). A French pilot can use a M2000-5 ready to be deliver to India for exemple, A Egyptian pilot can not flight a SU30 form India!(as Egypt has no SU30). A French well trained professional could adapt quickly to a Leopard 2 in 3 month, not a Egyptian to a T80.Our level of education and training is not the same from officers to soldiers. And these hypothesis BTW add few items (maybe equivalent of one year delivery) except for munitions. Not a problem to ask InterTechnique to build 20 refueling pod and air France Industries to modify 10 A330 to become tankers in 3 or 4 months .Egyptian can not achieve such things like sophsiticated crash programs. I will continue scenario using existing items except we suppose we have munitions sheduled to be delivered in 2009 year completed in few months except a year.!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- That we have more LST, buying second hands abroad, and more ro-ro cargo by buying and requisition, then repainting them in grey and puting SIMBAD mistal lauchers and some Dagaie decoys.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:FS One improvement deserves another   5/3/2005 2:05:57 PM
I' m not favoring a nuclear attack. BTW we have conventional EMP bomb which would be used in the first waves. Gxxx : old Tu16 are nothing and their is no way Egyptian could mount such an a attack on French fleet protected by E2C and Rafale with any success moreover at more than 500 miles. I remember you that Egypt can not make any strong attack on France or Djibouti (out of range or to weak attack easily disrupted). Egypt has provocated France and killed its citizen. We have the choice of schedule of first attacks like US with Iraqis. I still wonder if our main landing have to be made in med (Marsa Mathru or Al salum on Lybian border) or Ras Banas. We can not split Cdg between two seas and our landing task force. I agree with Bluewing that med simplify logistic and also surprise effect as we can send landing force only after Egypt air force has been destroyed while in Djibouti preparation will be noticed. So I will examinate a improved scenario based on med for main landing while Djibouti is used for air attack and reinforcement. I remmber you that Egypt has only 213 F16A/C I remember you that Egyptian governement benefit on no help as they are seen as a group of thugs after killing French and western citizens. act1: preparing (3 months) Push French industry at top rate using exiting facilities and preempt weapons deliveries to foreign customers when needed.Production kit for AMX30 B2.Accelearting easy updates (electronic cards).Reserving 200 Leopard 2 from Germans if needed. Building Chad and Djibouti: Chad: send via Dakar using civilian sealift plus airlift (12 747 cargo + 6 AN124). Motorized corps: 4 Brigades: one armored, one cavalerie, 2 motorized, 1 airmobile, 3 airfield enginners rgmts 80 Leclerc 192 AM10 RC 2500 VBCI/VAB/VBL + 24 MRLS + 210 Caesar/TR155 + 300 helos 1 AWACs 1 aster30 rgmt, amunitions stocks, 16 transall for air refueling airfield improved in Abeche and n'djamena plus airfields in north. Djibouti: 1 awac, 5 Batrals, +ro-ro + amunitions + 1 armored brigade. France: preparing ro-ro and ferries in 3 months.Preparation of 2 armored brigades and two mechanized, 1 paratroopers, 1 marine Infantry.Reactivating 2/3 SSK.Buying some transports and ro-ro to friends.Accelerating training. Diplomatie: negociating with Egyptian to win time (and also Greec, Chypriots, Lybian, Ethipian , Erytreans and Sudanese to get lever of actions). Probably we could have one or two countries in our hand (after paying). Survey operations in Egypt, locating F16 E2C pilots families and air force secondary locations. Next to come: air attack! =================================================================================================== Egypt will make the following upgrades to its armed forces for by 2009 if you do the things listed above. Military: 1. Replace the Romeo Class SSK in front line service with Kilo Type 877EKM SSK with spares service and Clubs. Romeos in Reserve. 2. Upgrade existing F-16s to block 60 configuration and HAVE GLASS pits. Mig-21 upgraded by Israel to be BVR capable and avionics upgrade. 3. Replace AIM-7 with AIM-120C. 4. M1A1 Abrams Upgraded to A2 Standard. Number increased to 1000 from 900. 5. PAC-3 6. TU-16 replaced with SU-34 and Kh-15. 7. DF-3A purchased from China. Egyptian SCUD upgrade completed. 8. E-2c Software upgraded to latest standard. 9. All Harpoon upgrade to SLAM-ER standard. 10. JDAM kits purchased under FMS program. 11. 2x FFG-7 purchased From US as they retire. 12. C4I upgraded by LM and Raytheon 13. Project 1242.1 Molniya Missile Boats to replace OSA in front line service. Diplomatic: 1. Non-Agression pact with Israel 2. Joint Common Canal Security agreement with Israel and the United States 3. SATCOM and Satellite intelligence contracted out to the United States My point is FS that for dirt cheap Egypt can keep up with its defence. And being hostile to France and her citizens would not stop other nations from doing business. Chinese violence against students does not stop EU from lifting arms embargo and France did business with Saddam until the end. So just like the US delt with these political realities so to does France. It comes with the territory if you want to be a superpower.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:FS One improvement deserves another   5/3/2005 2:10:06 PM
So all the upgrades I mentioned are done very cheaply as Egypt is only planning a local defense. Nothing fancy and all achievable by 2009. Egyptians can adapt to new equipment just as fast as the French. And the new equipment I listed are nothing more than upgrades to old kit in most cases.
 
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