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Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
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mithradates    Are FS's war plans some kind of a joke?   4/29/2005 11:00:25 PM
Because they are all so far-fetched without even a glimmer of hope at succeeding.
 
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Bluewings    RE:Are FS's war plans some kind of a joke?   4/29/2005 11:44:04 PM
Sincerely , it surprises me to see so many posters doubting of the French projection capability at close to medium range . Some of you are well off . I believe that it is a matter of disbelief and unnacceptance of France 's power . I could swear that if the thread was UK vs Egypt , more people would think that UK should win this when France has in fact a better projection Force than the UK . So , is it simply bashing ?.. Gixxx , your knowledge about tanks is limited , You wouldn 't be able to tell me what kind of ammo Egypt is using for the M1's they have without surfing the net . I can . Furthermore , I do not believe you when you say that you have been in the military for "that many years" . Your "baby-face" tells me the opposite . To be honest , I even have doubts that you actually ARE what you claim to be ... Some stuff you say simply doesn 't "sound" right ... Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    Battle of the Med -FS   4/29/2005 11:44:47 PM
link Hands down France wins in a dirrect confrontation. What about indirect? The strait between Tunisia and Italy that the CdG would have to transit on its way to strike Egypt is perhaps 50 NM at the widest point and 20 NM at the narrowest. Excellent place for SSK/Mine ambush. Also using optical aids Egyptian intelligence could see your ships pass through. Between Greece and Libya you have 100 NM of space. There is an abundant opportunity to pick off a few of your logistical ships with SSK and Even Aircraft considering that there are Friendly F-16, F-4 and P-3 in the area. Until you pass these points Egypt will use hit and run tactics above and below the Sea to strike one of your critical mission assets like the CdG, Horizon Frigate, Troop Ship or Ro/Ro. There is a high probability of hitting something. If you pass Crete it is here you will meet more massive resistance. At this point your air defenses will be weakest. You are 800+ NM away from any air base capable of supporting your ships. If the CVN is not present you will be massacred here by the Egyptian Navy and Air Force. If the CVN is present then you will recieve a significant boost to your air defense. But Egypt will have several hundred multirole fighter bombers and AWACs vs 40 aircraft MAX from the CVN.
 
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EW3    RE:Battle of the Med - gixxx   4/30/2005 12:01:07 AM
This is not unlike the China/Taiwan deal. Here you have a country that thinks of itself as a superpower, but can't win a fight in it's own backyard. Your points about logistics are all spot on. Most of the French Navy would have to run the gauntlet against mines, ssks and missile boats. Also harpoons can be fired from land, so when they get in close major problems. We were always concerned about Osa/Komars. The looked like a rock if at anchor from 20 miles away against land. An opposed amphibious landing against just about any nation is a bad dream in the modern era. Casualty rates will be in to 50-75% range. Too many people think June 6 can be repeated. Fact is the Allies were very lucky, one recon aircraft or german submarine spotting the invasion fleet and the outcome might have been very different. (and Inchon was unopposed for the most part, again a major recon failure)
 
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mithradates    RE:Are FS's war plans some kind of a joke?   4/30/2005 12:03:31 AM
"believe that it is a matter of disbelief and unnacceptance of France 's power . I could swear that if the thread was UK vs Egypt , more people would think that UK should win this when France has in fact a better projection Force than the UK ." If it was the UK, they'll suffer the same fate as France. The only nation that could credibly conquor Eygpt on their own would be the U.S
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Battle of the Med - EW3   4/30/2005 12:10:37 AM
Thanks. The Med is a nightmare. I'm a CAV guy so I didnt really appreciated it at first. But gf helped me to look at it from a "nautical" point of view some time ago. I would hate to be on the French side in this scenario. And it only gets worse for them if they actually manage to land. Speaking of landing, you are right that modern weapons would make for unbelievable casualties without TOTAL control of the landing zone.
 
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gixxxerking    Bluewings   4/30/2005 12:13:20 AM
link You should be ashamed of yourself to post that. I will not waste any more of my time to respond to it. Except to say that it shows tremendous ignorance and arrogance...;)
 
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EW3    RE:Battle of the Med - gixxx   4/30/2005 12:22:02 AM
Never did a Med cruise, I did the North Atlantic/Artic Ocean route. (Just my luck I love italian food and women;) ) But from the guys I knew that had done Med cruises, it was like a bath tub. No place is very far from shore, and I've heard stories of atmospheric conditions permitting tracking ships 40 miles away, and sonar contacts at 2x the normal range. One thing to watch for in any littoral situation is when s shallow draft ship pulls into a tiny cove or bay and sits there and goes EMCON. You can't tell them from their background. One plane/sub sees the fleet nearby and the guys moored start firing missiles from short range and no warning. Ouch. The OSA/Komar was/is a russian PT boat with 4 Styx missiles on board. They are the ones that got the Elath.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Battle of the Med - gixxx   4/30/2005 12:42:49 AM
Not to mention all the civilian shipping and non involved military forces would add to the confussion.
 
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EW3    RE:Battle of the Med - gixxx   4/30/2005 12:50:54 AM
"Not to mention all the civilian shipping and non involved military forces would add to the confussion." For the French and the Egyptians yes. But the US has some great target ID techniques. So when people say the Taiwan Strait will be so tough, they know not what they say.
 
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