Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: How rank France in world power?
french stratege    4/23/2005 9:33:41 PM
o be a world power means to master a number of power tools and capacities: Economic power: France have fourth largest economy in world, even UK GNP seems on a par.But in fact France has a slightly bigger GDP in Puchasing Power Parity, a stronguer industry as its share in GNP is bigger, and especially in military usable industry (automotive, steel, microelectronic ...). Its trade balnce is positive unless US and UK.We benefit of Euro in sense that in a crisis, Euro would not go down like pound.Our financial market is less sensitive to crisis than UK. Then our saving, gold and currencies reserves are higher. France has 43 companies in the WORLD FORTUNE 500 ranking, one more than Germany and much more than UK or Italy.For example UK industry is stronguer than France in prescription drug but you can not use that for war. War potential: US: 100; Japan: 55, Germany ,40, France 25, UK 20. Diplomatic influence: should I said that French diplomatic network is world class and second to US only (with better skills).That our foreign aid is higher than UK or US in GNP %? That we have VETO right in UNO? That our cultural influence is world second after US? Thank to our industry we can substitute to US or Russia to deliver to a friend the whole set of weapons INDEPENDANTLY (from airfighters to subs via tank or C4ISR) and can shift power balance in any area.WE ARE THE SECOND WESTERN INDEPENDANT SUPPLIER AFTER US FOR CAPACITIES. We are the only Euro nation to have the full INDEPENDANT world reco network which is second to USA. RECO satellites, Telecom satellites (bandwith second to US), ELINT satellites, DSP satellites (in 2008), METEO satellites, spy ships, 30 ELINT ground station in word with 2 dedicated to spy US satelites, SPACE SURVEILLANCE RADAR. An unkown assets is that we are the only nation with US which can produce any currencies in world (to make false money in perfect imitation - we are the best in Europe for money technology) Sensitivity to energy imports: Our oil company is fourth in world and we have ROBUST assets in non middle east areas like Gabon, Angola etc...We produce our oil industry heavy equipment and our industry is world second of US in this field. Our nuclear energy production is world second in world and give us independance on electricity.Our influence in Africa secure minerals imports. Sensitivity to embargo: France has world class semiconductors facilities and hold the more advanced Europe wafer fab (joint venture between Motorola, SGS Thomson and Philips). Our auto maker build 7,5 million car /year, we have Airbus main designed office in France and so on...Our industry is pretty well balanced and produce almost everything at world class. Then we are the only Euro nation with a launch pad and Euro leader in Space.So we do not depend on US or other nation. We produce the second set of weapons after US and we do not depend of any supplier. Military technology: we are mastering everything form nukes to C4ISR with a technological level recognised by US as world second (while UK is close after).Of course neither Japan, Germany or China enjoy such an advantage. Nukes: our nuclear force are world THIRD and we produce precise counterforce weapons INDEPENDANTLY.Good second strike ability.400 warheads vs 200 for UK.(and we have stored weapons we can reactivate).3 SSBN can strike anywhere in the world. Military skills: our war academy is renown with US and UK.Israelis send some generals to perfectionate. Should I remember that Saudia Arabia asked French to crush rebellion in Mecka and not to US or UK?Saudis special forces and military stalled two weeks before asking France help.We did it in two days with 70 commandos leading Saudi commando (and using combat nerve gaz killing 2000 rebels). Mitary capacities. Second world force projection from 2007 to 2012 as a single Cdg with 3E2C and 40 Rafales, protected by 19 frigates with top ASW, 6 SSN and 3 Horizon with ASTER 30 outperform anything UK have: Indeed UK has 2 ACTIVE small carriers (with limited self protection and 60 harriers), they will not have any BVR fighters with FA2 retirement, and not antiship capacity since Harrier GR7/9 have NO RADAR!! UK air force has an handfull of non operational EF supported by 63 old Tornado ADV.No medium range airdefense for their troops. They have more SSN (soon reduced to 8 only) and military transport but we rely on civilian military prepared transports from french companies and our overseas bases to accumulate locally . ONLY US, UK, Russia and Japan has a sub force strong enough to put in danger our fleet. In fact we can crush any OPFOR airforce of 100 SU27/Mig29 (plus old MIGS or SU) without AWAC, ONLY relying on Cdg (even I agree a second would be better and needed). Most of nation do not have ENOUGH YAKHONT equivalent missiles to crush our naval force until our second carrier is operational. UK is unable to do that and in 2010 only 4 T45 will have entered service
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest

Bluewings    RE:wings   4/29/2005 1:30:00 AM
ret13f , thx :) FS and I are both from Dijon , about the same age I believe , but we never met each other . I think He told me that He 's not in the military but working for them (?) . He 'll confirm if He wishes to do so . To Gixxx : the factor you tent to forget is the quality difference between EGyptian and French Forces . I am NOT TALKING man to man , but Technology and Tactics . I urge you to reconsider the outcome between Leclerc and Egypyian Abrams M1A1-HA . Thoses tanks are not equals , nor the ammo , nor the crews . Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    RE:wings   4/29/2005 2:32:53 AM
"I urge you to reconsider the outcome between Leclerc and Egypyian Abrams M1A1-HA . Thoses tanks are not equals , nor the ammo , nor the crews ." --Bluewings When I tell you you are DEAD WRONG, I urge you to consider my background before replying.
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege    ret13f    4/29/2005 8:44:11 AM
I had already given an example from a French air force instructor on Egyptian training.French instructor have trained some Egyptian previously flying F16 on M2000.There were suprised of Egyptian pilot bad skills using navigation systems and FCS.They ask what they do their F16, and the Egyptian pilot said : "oh we never use INS, we just follow Nile river to come back on the base". BTW we I say we can reinforce Djibouti, it would likely be done by turning around Africa by shipping to avoid red sea.Our force would not enter red sea until Egyptian air force is crushed of course. Bluewing: I discarded main offensive from med because Corsica while in range is far and so it reduce sortie number and war load of fighters. Djibouti is close to south Egypt frontier while Egyptian infrastructure is weak is the south making landing on shore more easy for French. Of course Leclerc are so so superior than a M1A2 but Egyptian have older versions.More other French force have a C4ISR and reaction time and mobility much better.Our helo number is much much greater than Egypt. It is no question to get frontal battle until air superiority have soften ground force of course. Air mobile helos units whill easily transit by flight from Djibouti to south coast of Egypt and inland south.Or transit directly from Chad via a short overflight in west sudan where boundaries between Chad and Lybia are not defined and Sudan has no force (north of Darfour). Today French do incursion from Chad in this area and Sudan say nothing.SO if France is in war, it is easy for Sudanese gov to shut eyes and say the French must have went trought Lybian desert and not Sudanese. More over we can play Erythre
 
Quote    Reply

dummnutzer    RE:Dudley   4/29/2005 8:52:48 AM
Q:I dont mean for this to be a racist or antireligious comment but reality must be faced. Any african led country has how much success? Arabs have what success at ruling modern economy? According to Your arguement, the US is turning into a failed Banana republic, as its ´white´ and ´yellow´ citizens are reproducing at the same rate as European of similiar ethnic heritage. The fastest growing ethnic group in the US are latinos, followed by negroes. Both groups are underepresented in technical or leadership positions in the US. There are many ways to bash the French. Please avoid Racism. It easily backfires. It also devalues any other point You make. All IMHO, of course.
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege    RE:How rank France in world power?   4/29/2005 8:57:27 AM
see map for exemple link link for airport
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege    Egypt to continue   4/29/2005 9:21:58 AM
Better map link link I mean a landing around Baranis and cape R'as Banas in the south.Bared land and montaneous near the sea.It favor clearly French air force and air mobile troops from Djibouti. To reinforce, Egyptian forces which are in the north, have to go through the single supply line of Nile valley.I can add that crushing Assouan dam would impeach Egyptians to reinforce Baranis area with armor via the road from Luxor (under air attack BTW). Number of tank doesn't count much if you have lost air superiority especially under much more mobile force with shorter reaction time because digitalized, and heavily equiped with PGM (i rememeber you we have 4000 BONUS shells and 3000 AASM for wargame).More over Egyptian bared land lack of natural coverage. In fact after better investigation , I think that 400 heavy tank are enought along full airmobile and mobile artillery. A secondary diversion action in Med would further jeopardized Egyptian and disperse their force.(Am Salum, Marsa Mathru). Quatara depression near El Alamein narrow usable battle field to 50 km. If we land in the south (mainly on secondary) we attack force south, but Egyptian have to cover from a secondary attempt or main, at Marsa for example. If they mass a lot of force there we could trap them using the El Alamein bottle neck.If they don't, it is usable for shore landing. Egyptian can not cover with their forces (in desert areas with a single supply line) all directions (south/North/south west) of potential attacks after having lost aerial battle.
 
Quote    Reply

PeregrinePike    Hey, is Black Forest German or not?   4/29/2005 9:33:32 AM
Hey, is Black Forest German or not? I dont want to keep returning to this post looking for the answer... so someone just answer it for me. Is the cake German or not... thats all I ask.
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege    RE:Hey, is Black Forest German or not?   4/29/2005 11:46:24 AM
yes, the cake is German!
 
Quote    Reply

PeregrinePike    RE:Hey, is Black Forest German or not?   4/29/2005 12:01:33 PM
Thank you... I shall bother you no more ;-)
 
Quote    Reply

johnboy    RE:How rank France in world power?   4/29/2005 1:03:59 PM
It seems to me that there is an enourmous amount of Francophobia in this thread, which isn't surprising. Francophobia goes hand-in-hand with being a English-speaking right-wing blowhard. Yes, India and China are developing rapidly. However, despite being poorer, India is much further along than China in terms of developing real power projection capabilities. India has been expermenting with real blue water carrier power for decades, and will soon have them. China hasn't gotten past planning. India's army and air force are vastly more professional, and India's general level of armament is superior. India has a lengthy record of successful warfare against foreign opponents. China has managed to sustain enormous losses in stalemating the US in Korea, stalemate India in a border conflict, lose two border conflicts with the USSR and Vietnam (!!) The Chinese might START catching up in 20 years, but for the most part their military capacity is utterly backwards and their power projection capability is bupkis. I'd strongly recommend reading David Shambaugh's work on the subject, or perhaps what the US Army War College publishes on the matter. "Looking for a new great power enemy" propaganda doesn't cut it with me, or anyone else who realizes just what a shambles China is. Anyway, back to France. The plain fact of the matter is that in 1980, there were exactly four countries on Earth capable of global power projection: the US, the USSR, France, and the UK. There are now exactly three. Care to guess who dropped off the list? It wasn't France. The UK's defense policy has been very integrated with that of the US since the 1960s. For example, part of the reason why the Royal Navy has what is arguably the best submarine service in the world is that they focused their naval efforts on subs, using lots of technology that they borrowed from the US. They favored sub development over carrier development, abandoning sea control to the US Navy in favor of pursuing sea denial against the Soviets (and, budgetarily, maintaining a large army in Central Europe). This general attitude of relying on the Americans to do certain things for them very nearly blew up in their faces in 1982: if Buenos Aires had waited just a year for the next stretch of good weather to invade the Falklands, the UK would not have been able to respond independently AT ALL. The Invincible and the Hermes would have been sold as scrap. The French, by contrast, have insisted on being able to do as much as is feasible on their own. It limits the size of their forces in some respects, but increases overall capabilities. The French carrier, for example, is a true light strike aircraft carrier - not a helicopter carrier that usually only carries a mere 8 Harrier jets for limited self-defense. I think the seriousness with which the French government takes retaining its power projection capability has been greater than the UK's for almost 50 years now, and it shows. Paris has never allowed itself to become as dependent on Washington as London has. In terms of power projection and flexibility, it ranks a distant second to the US... but second nonetheless. The British are #3. Past that, there is no one else and won't be for at least ten years and maybe twenty-five.
 
Quote    Reply



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2012StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy