Battle of Arausio

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jastayme3 RE:Battle of Arausio 3/23/2005 3:22:33 AM

There may have been a typo perhaps-an extra zero? Or maybe it was refering to casualties for the entire campaign.

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jastayme3 RE:Battle of Arausio 3/23/2005 3:22:34 AM

There may have been a typo perhaps-an extra zero? Or maybe it was refering to casualties for the entire campaign.

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jastayme3 RE:Battle of Arausio 3/23/2005 3:22:36 AM

There may have been a typo perhaps-an extra zero? Or maybe it was refering to casualties for the entire campaign.

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gf0012-aust Battle of Arausio - stuttering - calling all Boris's 3/23/2005 5:10:40 AM

matey, ease up on the whiskey, you're starting to stutter... ;) Boris the Romanian is one of the Roman Warfare experts... try and get his attention.

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Roman RE:Battle of Arausio 3/23/2005 8:01:32 AM

"There may have been a typo perhaps-an extra zero? Or maybe it was refering to casualties for the entire campaign." It was specifically the casualties of that particular battle. Also, the info came from two independent sources (though it differed slightly - one source said 85,000 and the other 80,000 [112,000 including the 'baggage train']).

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Roman RE:Battle of Arausio - stuttering - calling all Boris's 3/23/2005 8:08:03 AM

Yep, I am hoping for Boris to show up in this thread... ;)

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Ad RE:Battle of Arausio 3/23/2005 8:45:27 AM

Being no expert of sorts on the subject, I?d like to cast doubt over the figures. Such a loss taken by Caesar would have surely demanded his recall to Rome (and subsequent prosecution if Cato had anything to do about it). As such, the campaign in Gaul and Britannia over the eight year period was highly illegal under the Republic?s laws anyway (levying troops, attacking the across the Rhine, forging alliances etc) While it was only the triumvirate between Pompey and Crassus, along with his continual victories, that kept Caesar in his proconsul position. For a man that could find victory at Alesia and prior to that carve up several hundred thousand Helevetii, I find it seriously difficult to imagine that he would suffer any such reverse on that scale.

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blitZ Battle of the Catalaunian fields 3/23/2005 1:24:41 PM

i think the Battle of the Catalaunian fields, Romans V The Huns had more than 100,000 dead in a single day. but i cant find the link.

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Roman RE:Battle of Arausio 3/23/2005 5:46:47 PM

Ad, this was before Ceasar's time...

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boris the romanian The Battle of Orange (Arausio) 4/1/2005 11:36:17 PM

Sorry about the lateness of this reply, old boy, but I've only just come accross this thread. The Battle of Arausio was one of the great calamaties of Roman military history but it is also notable for three other reasons, namely a) it is the last major engagement involving an "old school" manipular Roman legion (i.e. hastati, principes, triarii, equites, velites, socii, etc.) b) it is the last major engagement involving a proper "old school" consular army c) it is the first major battle involving a Roman army and primarily Germanic opponents (the earlier Battle of Noreia being more of a series of savage skirmishes that went out of control). This battle was part of a Senatorial campaign against the Volkerwanderung of the Ambrones, Teutones and Cimbri. These barbarians are thought to have originated from Saxony and "Jutland", and by c.110 BC they had began a great southerly migration. Their numbers have been estimated at well over half a million, which may be no great exaggeration, of which c.150-200,000 would have been combatants. These would have been joined by other Germanic and also Celtic tribes during their travels south. The Senate was well aware that this barbarian horde was in search of land, not loot, and very wisely refused them negotiations and any concessions, but they seriously under-estimated both their numbers and fighting prowess, so that, despite several skirmishes and raids by Roman troops in 106 BC, less than 20,000 legionaries faced them in Noricum. These were brushed aside quite easily by the barbarians, who continued their south-westerly march. This greatly alarmed the senate, which raised the last old style Consular army in great haste and panic. Because of the enormously unpopular wars in Spain, the Roman army was in a process of "professionalisation" (i.e. the Marian reforms), and this merely added to the difficulties of raising a Consular army in haste. Although records are not clear, a Consular army would have comprised of four legions of 4,200 men each (although I think it is a safe assumption that these were swelled to 5,000 men each because of the national emergency) plus an equal number of Allies. This would have given the Romans a number of around 40,000 troops. As they marched towards Gaul they would have been joined by equally alarmed Celtic tribes in an effort to stem this Germanic invasion, which preferred tackling the Rhone rather than the Alps. So the Consular army would have been anywhere from 45-65,000 strong by the time it confronted the barbarians. The exact details of the battle are not very clear, but what is known is that the Germanic charge carried all before them. This would imply that the hastati were traditionally deployed as antesignanii rather than the (then) more common post signanii, as the principes would have done rather better against barbarians (many of the older Roman troops would have already faced barbarians on several other campaigns). In any case, the Roman battle lines were shattered and they were quite probably enveloped (at least partially if not completely) by the far more numerous Germans. They routed and the Germans gave chase until, to the Romans' good fortune, a ferocious thunderstorm opened up. The superstitious Germans thought their Odin was displeased and gave up the chase, thus preventing the major Roman disaster from being one of complete and total annihilation. Even so, the Roman losses were severe, with c. 35-45,000 dead. The Germans seem to have suffered quite a bit, too (losing perhaps 10,000), but they could absorb these losses. The scene was set for the dramatic Roman come-back at Aquiae Sextiae and Vercellae three years later under Gaius Marius. ...hope that helps....

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