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Subject: French Military & foreign policy
Herc the Merc    3/1/2005 1:32:54 PM
Its apparent that France wants to play like a big boy in the Geo-political world and have its finger in the pie. We in the USA have a declared policy of attacking terrorists like Al-Quaida with full force.
Our recent involvement in Iraq also had a goal of having democratic Iraq. We are pissed at Iran due to its nuclear policy & venomous talk.
In the cold war the Soviet Union wanted global communism or at least socialism. Even Bin Laden wanted an Islamic Caliphate type of scenario. What do the French want, and how can it intervene-??
 
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verdunjp    RE:French Military & foreign policy   3/1/2005 7:00:56 PM
You seem to forgot that France fight terrorism since a long time before 9/11. During the 80, serious terrorist agressions had shaked France. So, according to me, France will fallow USA at 100% in the war against terrorism. JP
 
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Yimmy    RE:French Military & foreign policy   3/1/2005 7:08:54 PM
"In the cold war the Soviet Union wanted global communism or at least socialism." No they didn't, Lenin and Stalin set the course for internal Communism. The West thinking otherwise was simply a paranoid delusion.
 
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Herc the Merc    RE:French Military & foreign policy   3/1/2005 7:13:40 PM
Well my question is the raison l'etre of FRance and international affairs. They got upset about Iraq (FURIOUS) yet it seems that the only alternative they had to offer to Iraqi's was continued no fly zones and Saddam, the US (ie Bush) came in with all the contrevorsy etc- said it was for democracy(the world laughed), but hey there is an election. France is still mad. In this specific instance what was the French goal in Iraq (prior to US invasion).
 
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JIMF    RE:French Military & foreign policy-To verdunjp   3/1/2005 7:18:10 PM
As I recall from a previous post you are Canadian. I can't imagine a French person saying that they will "follow USA". Lead America, influence America, and maybe if they are feeling particularly generous they might say work with America, but follow USA, I don't think that particular concept can be expressed in the French language.
 
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Godofgamblers    RE:French Military & foreign policy-To verdunjpJIMF   3/1/2005 7:52:42 PM
JIMF, agree with your comments. but not clear if you mean that in a positive or negative way. it can be both, right? Herc, maybe you saw that classic movie WALLSTREET where G. Gecko proclaims, "Wars, famine, the price of a paper clip... we pull that stuff out of the air and the man on the street scratches his head and wonders where we get all this stuff". basically right. iraq was a crisis because bush declared it a crisis. as for the sudden pains of conscience of the american elite over saddam's "cruelty" to his own people, that had been going on for decades, with western financial, military and ideological support. why suddenly declare it a crisis? and there are a dozen or so countries around the world where you could declare a similar crisis. why iraq? obviously there were political reasons to invade iraq. the french, along with many other countries, saw bush as having dreamt up the iraq crisis and so had no interest in getting involved. if anyone put themselves into chirac's shoes and tried to justify helping the US to the french people, they would be very very hard pressed to do so. france was the victim of multiple bombings in a spree that lasted for years. many were killed in seeminly random bombings. i went to paris in 92 (or around there) when the bombings were at their height. but the french took it in stride and went about life as normal. same for the british during the IRA bombings in 79 in london. they are no strangers to 'terrorism'.
 
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verdunjp    RE:French Military & foreign policy-To JIMF   3/1/2005 8:11:15 PM
You are right. French people would not use the words "follow USA" but in fact, they will if it is to fight terrorism. JP
 
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JIMF    RE:To GODOFGAMBLERS and verdunjp   3/1/2005 8:25:33 PM
Actually I meant it in a humorous way, but as I said in another post I admire France's strong sense of indedpendence. French Language Question: When Woodrow Wilson was in Paris in 1919 a French newspaper described him as a "man of candor" I suppose that might be "candeur" in French. One of Wilson's aides was very pleased and took it as a compliment meaning that Wilson was honest, a straight shooter, puts his cards on the table etc. One of the French delegates informed the aide however that the French word included the connotation that anyone who would tell you everything and was totally honest must be a fool. Is that correct?
 
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Herc the Merc    RE:To GODOFGAMBLERS and verdunjp   3/1/2005 8:36:43 PM
Ok France did not have any interests to oust Saddam, and had reason to sverely doubt Bush's motives, the question remains, if Iraq was not to be invaded what was France plan of action with Iraq, and in general its role in the world as a geopolitical player.
 
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Godofgamblers    faux ami   3/1/2005 8:53:56 PM
yes, JIMF, that is a good one. "candeur" is what french learners call a "faux ami". it is an English word that seems the same as a word in french but has a completely different meaning. candeur in French means, to put it nicely, naive. so basically the french were not saying that Wilson was a "straight shooter" but a naive person. i.e. a simpleton who did not understand the subtleties of the matter at hand.
 
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verdunjp    RE:To GODOFGAMBLERS and verdunjp   3/1/2005 8:53:58 PM
It is right. But fool sounds to me to much severe. JP
 
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Godofgamblers    H the M   3/1/2005 8:56:45 PM
france, i think, wanted to act thru the UN for any action against iraq. as for its role on the geopolitical scene, i don't really know. the question is above my head. however, some say it is to serve as a counterweight to the US. this does not come from any politician i have heard, but if you read LE MONDE, this idea of a counterweight and france's 'responsibility' to act as one is brought up from time to time. perhaps the frenchmen on this forum will give more insight into this issue.
 
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verdunjp    RE:To JIMF about candeur   3/1/2005 9:01:09 PM
The word means two thinks. Extreme goodness and a bit of naive. JP
 
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Godofgamblers    RE:To JIMF about candeur NUANCE   3/1/2005 9:08:03 PM
yes, verdun, but when one uses it for a politician, i think it is in the negative sense, don't you? it's like "ingenu". it can be good if you're talking about a young girl. but using it for a politician is a slap in the face. don't you agree?
 
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verdunjp    RE:To GoG..about candeur NUANCE   3/1/2005 10:05:19 PM
Hi GoG, I still belive that it is not much negative than positive. Regards, JP
 
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Godofgamblers    RE:To GoG..about candeur NUANCE   3/1/2005 10:12:59 PM
well, your knowledge of french is better than mine, so i'll take your word for it :)
 
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