Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Armed Forces of the World Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: USA vs EU
gixxxerking    1/6/2005 6:13:25 PM
This is the mood in the Fighters forums so I thought I would just declare war here instead. C'mon all you armchair generals, who wins this fight?
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
RM-Nod    RE:Widget is French   1/19/2005 8:31:31 AM
Now I hate to go into details like this but here?s a little scenario. What happens if, when war begins to look like it may happen, the EU declares an exclusion zone of say 500-1000km off the coast of EU territories and begins to reinforce certain points? For example? * The EU re-enforces Greenland with? 20 Typhoons (UK) 20 GR4s (UK) 20 Harrier FA2s (UK) 6 Nimrod MR2s (UK) 3 E3 Sentries (UK) 4500 Royal Marines and Paras (UK) 100 SBS Troops (UK) 27 AS90s and 105mm light guns (UK) 27 Rapier SAMs (UK) 45 Starstreak HVMs (UK) 18 Hawk SAMs (France) 8 Type 206 SSKs (Germany) ...with plans to destroy key bases when it looks like they may have to retreat; and places UK SSNs close to Iceland marking any potential US basing points with TLAM. I could say that the EU would occupy Iceland but being nice I've left them alone lol Now that?s just a quick little scenario but it?s something that could completely disrupt Gixxx?s plans and I think shows up the lack of thought about what the EU might do before war even starts and the large number of assumptions on Gixx?s part.
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege    RE:Widget is French   1/19/2005 9:19:35 AM
I would instead put a wing of german Tornado in Greenland equiped with 4 Kormoran each.
 
Quote    Reply

RM-Nod    RE:Widget is French   1/19/2005 9:43:59 AM
Well the Indians still use the Sea Eagle so I assume that the production is still open on these or at least there are stocks available. So having as many assets from the same country would be better in my opinion. Anyway this is getting into minute details and I want to avoid that, otherwise you could go on for pages and pages and not actually get very far.
 
Quote    Reply

Lightning Rod    RE:USA vs EU   1/19/2005 10:53:13 AM
Naturally the US would attack just after the end of the war between the UK and France and the war between Spain and Italy. As you can see my plan is much better than gixxerking:)
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    RE:USA vs EU   1/19/2005 11:40:50 AM
USAF has assets in Iceland capable of stopping EU reinforcement right now. Also to all my critics, thanks again for helping me understand. Keep in mind this is just the UK operation. NOD, I will answer your questions in a few hours. But the for I mentioned would be sufficient in winning air superiority, very temporarily over the UK. Next I will address the other operations. Keep in mind no VLS was used and onlt two CSG participate in the UK OP. More follows shortly... I would Already control Iceland, reinforced with US units forced to withdraw from EU befiore shooting starts. These forces are in great position to block access to Greenland. link link
 
Quote    Reply

wjr    RE:USA vs EU   1/19/2005 12:04:23 PM
Much earlier in this discussion thread I made a comment about moral and motivation. Follow the link below for, what I believe, is a very good set of observations about this. link Best, wjr
 
Quote    Reply

Old Grunt    RE:USA vs EU   1/19/2005 1:20:49 PM
At what point do the Space Aliens intervene and on who's behalf?
 
Quote    Reply

Old Grunt    RE:USA vs EU   1/19/2005 1:22:14 PM
And are they using Imperial Starcruisers or Federation Galaxy Class Starships?
 
Quote    Reply

joe6pack    RE:USA vs EU   1/19/2005 2:20:17 PM
"At what point do the Space Aliens intervene and on who's behalf?" My bet is on the Vogon Constructor Fleet. While it is unlikely they will intervene on either side, superior US towel technology will mean far more US survivors.
 
Quote    Reply

gixxxerking    Some further explainations   1/19/2005 2:43:59 PM
If there are any questions as to my plan for ASW defense please allow me to explain here. I am a big fan of submarine warfare but admittedly, I am not a submariner. So bear with me if things seem ill advised. Just as the continental EU has the advantage of land based ASW A/C, The US does also. I will extend that advantage all the way to Iceland by virtue of NAS Keflavik. USAF units based there will ensure air superiority for the P-3C. My CSF can travel at 20 to 26 knots. Both groups have about a 3000 nautical mile trip. USN could take a direct route which would make it trivia for EU SSNs to lay in wait for ambush. I will not do this. By making frequent course changes of up to 45 degrees of the axis of advance I would force a EU SSN commander to do one of four things. -Follow the CSF Not good because of the high speed and escorting ASW forces. -Discover my axis of advance and follow it instead of a direct pursuit. This is actually one of the better options IMO. Except I will deploy Captor mines at the points where my CSF crosses the axis and have USN SSNs moving between these points in kill zones along the axis waiting for EU SSNs who have to be moving at high speed to keep up with the Carriers. -Predict where the CSF is going and wait there. Good idea except with millions of square km to choose from, the wrong choice would place you out of position. This would force you to move to those locations which would increase the chance of detection. Also USN forces know exactly where they are going. So ASW defenses will be particularly heavy the closer EU SSNs get. These positions are far enough away from shore to make operations difficult for SSKs. -Allow USN to complete the transit, Identify the general area of USN operations, then attack. This is also one of the better choices. However I believe USN could use good tactics to limit the effectiveness of this. The number one thing that stands out to me is the overwhelming superiority of numbers the USN has with SSNs. Right up to the beginning attacks on the EU, USN is still in the open ocean. That limits SSK threats. To further husband my resourses, I will not operate Carriers in the Med, initially. The purpose would be to temp EU navy to reinforce this area and take away from EU Atlantic forces. Also being in the MED puts USN in range of too many EU airforces. So besides a few Virginias and Los Angeles, USN concedes the MED to the EU until later. US can put more SSN into the med than EU has submarines unless the EU intends to put its entire force into the MED and concede the Atlantic to USN. Now back to the Atlantic. My CSF are operating in 500km by 500km boxes, aggressively patrolled by ASW A/C, Captor mines, SSNs all 700km off the coast of EU where SSk threat would be limited. Again the overwhelming superiority of numbers comes into play. The same movement techniques discussed during the USN transit would be used on a smaller scale. Some of you are saying that 4 CSF are not enough! What about EU airforces? Thats the whole reason I am only MOVING 4 CSF. I do not want to move a force so large as to require EU pre-emption. But I need a force capable of protecting itself for pre-emption should the EU decide that it is in its interest to do so The. The frontage EU airforces have to cover in the Atlantic is enormous. Over 2000nm between CSF groups! One North of UK with USAF/USN assets out of NAS Keflavik. The other of the coast of Portugal, 700km to the south west. To attack these groups from the air, you will have to come out over the Atlantic. Which is what I want. I have AEGIS, USN Air and USAF air. Any air attack would have to be massive to succeed against these CSFs. Most of the aircraft that could travel that far out over the Atlantic with a meaningful payload are based well away from the Atlantic. US would notice any large movement and preparation for anti-ship strike. Also your anti-ship missiles are subsonic and short ranged compared to the threats the USN was designed to face. Also assembling such a force would leave one flank, either the North, South or East, open. Also, 2 more CSF are readied and acting as a reserve in CONUS waters. PACFLEET has CSF/SSNs blocking access to Red Sea and Persian Gulf. That leaves 2 available for any Pacific ocean contingencies with 1 in port at San Diego. Now much has been said about being able to stop US LO aircraft and missiles. I have no doubt that some experimental systems may have limited ability to detect stealth at relatively close range. But they do not have the ability to protect the entire perimeter of the EU! And the US has many Stealth or LO aircraft and missiles. B-2, F-117, TLAM, AGM-129, ALCM, F-22, JSOW, JASSM, F/A-18E, B-1B. Many of these assets have intercontinental range.
 
Quote    Reply



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2012StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy