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Subject: USA vs EU
gixxxerking    1/6/2005 6:13:25 PM
This is the mood in the Fighters forums so I thought I would just declare war here instead. C'mon all you armchair generals, who wins this fight?
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:More independent Analysis --Additional observations   3/2/2005 6:18:09 PM
It might pay for you to read "Rising Tide" by Weir and Boyne. It's a treatise on how the Russian Submarine Service fought the Cold War. Although I have some respect for HH's works in general, there have been some errors in his assessments in the past. Some of which I've pointed out to SP and they were corrected and edited (and then re-released). HH and I happen to be in the same Strat Studies grp run by another member of the SP community, so we are pretty well aware of each others tactical philosophies and thought processes. At the risk of being unkind, and thats not my intent, the prev piece dumbs down a lot of tactical and operation opporunities to the lowest common denominator so that the average reader gets a general "feel" for issues. It is by no means (and I believe in HH's defense) that its meant to be a treatise and a vague handbook on engagement. If so, then there are any number of examples in the last 40 years which show the flaws to some of those theories. The lesson of the USS Saratoga mid atlantic against a Foxtrot is an example of what can be achieved when the gods look at dealing a fair hand to both sides. ;) Bear in mind that the Foxtrot was based on Type XX1 WW2 technology and that the Saratoga was in a cold war structured CBG - arguably considerably tougher to breach than a current CSF at current levels.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:More independent Analysis --Additional observations   3/2/2005 6:37:35 PM
Is it possible that maybe your analysis might have errors gf? I mean you seem to be relying on lucky victories when the gods smiled on the SSK. The majority of the time it would appear from reliable sources the CSF actually manages to survive most of the time. I should also note that CSF practice every day to survive SSK's. How often do the SSK's of EU nations practice hunting CSF's against actual CSF's?...;) Bottom line is I think it has been shown that my initial arguement has a little more credibility that some here would have liked to admit. Not that it would be assured of succeeding but it is definately not the suicide mission some believed. P.S. Thanks for the book recomendation. I just ordered it!
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:More independent Analysis --Additional observations   3/2/2005 7:29:11 PM
"Is it possible that maybe your analysis might have errors gf?" It's not just my analysis. But, I have no problem with being incorrect. If I make a bad call on available data, then schitt happens and one hopes that the risk assessment covers off that hole. If I make a bad call on assumed data, then I'm a twat. "I mean you seem to be relying on lucky victories when the gods smiled on the SSK. The majority of the time it would appear from reliable sources the CSF actually manages to survive most of the time." It's not the ratio thats important - its the latent opportunity and capability that is. "How often do the SSK's of EU nations practice hunting CSF's against actual CSF's?...;) " Actually, quite a bit.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:More independent Analysis --Additional observations   3/2/2005 8:06:24 PM
Well then both sides should be well prepared for the 3rd Battle of the Atlantic. The available data to me suggest clear US Victory in the open ocean all the way to about 300km of the coast. Its an opinion but the evidence would appears to support my claim.
 
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Danuas    RE:More independent Analysis --Additional observations   3/2/2005 9:01:27 PM
Yes for now. If the EU would work more closely together and maybe one day (i hope) have one military to protect all the European nations. That could start an armsrace between EU, Russia, China and US. This is both good an bad. Good because EU would get better tech. Bad because of the armsrace.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:More independent Analysis --Additional observations   3/5/2005 6:35:21 PM
EU is too culturally diverse to allow the type of integration necessary for a EU military. For example in America certain states may or may not have supported the war but all contribute military and economic resources. Could you imagine a EU where the French would offer troops their population didnt support? Hell even the Idea of France or other nations in Europe giving up their independence for the greater good is rediculous IMO.
 
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hist_ed    Here again EU vs US   7/23/2006 2:34:15 PM
Since another thread devolved into a pissing contest along these lines I thought I would bump this golden oldie to the top of the heap for old times sake. Nothing more to say, I am just trying to avoid work as much as possible. Cheers hist_ed
 
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