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Subject: USA vs EU
gixxxerking    1/6/2005 6:13:25 PM
This is the mood in the Fighters forums so I thought I would just declare war here instead. C'mon all you armchair generals, who wins this fight?
 
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Norvicension    RE:To Gixxxerking ... Friendly advice   1/13/2005 4:03:42 PM
My dear Mr. Gixxerking, have you not noticed how none of your countrymen are supporting your claims? Out of the 100 or so American posters who regularly post on these boards not one fully supports your argument. While I have no reason to disbelieve your claims of having been in the military, there are lots of proven servicemen who, if your argument for the US annihilation of the EU were correct would surely have backed up your points. However none has. Does this not lead you to suspect the possible existence of a few minor flaws in your argument? No? Oh well. On an entirely different note, you, like me, are a relatively new poster to strategypage. However I read these boards for close on a year before making my first post and in my time here I've seen a large number of posters whom you are starting to resemble. These posters would come on, make entirely unfounded claims (usually in the grips of rabid nationalism) they would also start insulting the other (rather more respected) posters. At this point they would be completely ripped to shreds by the other members of this discussion board. They would get more and more rude and moronic until they either left voluntarily or got kicked off by SYSOPS. Now, I'm not saying you are one of these posters YET. But you will be completely ostracised from sensible discussion if you continue to spout insulting BS like: "some of you liberals and EU guys dont like hearing the truth" I am a liberal and an 'EU guy' and it has to be said, my idea of truth (as well as that of most of this forum it seems) is markedly different from your own. I have seen so many potential posters fall into the trap of quasi-patriotic, national-self-glorification and it has to be said that your posts are starting to have that look about them. I advise you to stop posting on this particular thread - admit stalemate or something and then simply read every (interesting) thread you can find on Strategypage to get an idea of how things are done around here, before you recommence posting. Trust me on this - save your reputation on this website! It's the only way you will be taken seriously. I'm abnormally careful of what I write on this discussion board and I barely write at all! It's slightly different for me because I'm not of a military persuasion myself so must take care of what I write, but I'd still suggest you take similiar care not to antagonise people by your posts in the future. BTW - I think it's time for this thread to end. It's been done SO many times before - can't you all just agree to disagree? Norvicension.
 
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Sam    RE:To Gixxxerking ... asking for answers, please !   1/13/2005 4:22:44 PM
So where do these Burkes and Tycos come from? Are you pulling them from your 2 Carrier Battle groups that are in reserve? Where will they get support when called into service? Or will you pixie dust some up? Hint, you already have them committed as part of the ESGs. The only "unattached" ones are 2 Tycos and neither have VLS (Tyco and Gates). Only thing you have left are some OHPs and maybe a Spruance or 2.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:To Gixxxerking ... Friendly advice   1/13/2005 4:23:10 PM
Well I appreciate the advice. I will agree that I believe the US will defeat the EU in any confrontation. And others believe different. I can accept that and hopefully we will never find out who is right. But then why discuss any war or weapon system here since eventually somebody will disagree? Disagreement is the point. Different Ideas is not a bad thing. Its how you learn. Whats even more amazing is that people are so quick to say what will NEVER happen in a military forum! History would strongly disagree. Pearl Harbor, Hitler, Atomic Bombs, US vs U.S.S.R., 9/11, US Civil War, China intervention in the Korean War. All unthinkable until the day they happened. Except through hindsight when all the signs were clear. Perhaps some of the people who started the insults and personal attacks will also take your advice. Anyway, my only intent was to discuss a possible war scenario with interested posters. I really for the life of me cant understand why someone who is uninterested would even bother to post here? Alexis and Bluewings I had fun. I hope you did too. Maybe we can finish our war in the future. I dont want to cause problems for any of you so I will respond only if I notice something applicable to the topic. I mistook the 160+ post as interest in the topic. -gixxx out--
 
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gixxxerking    Response to Sam   1/13/2005 4:26:39 PM
I could temporarily attach some from the Pacific fleet for a major war like this. They did this in Operation Allied Force against the will of the CNO. After the initial TLAM strikes they could be released.
 
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Donkey    To gixxxerking   1/13/2005 4:33:06 PM
gixxxerking, after just being a long time reader, you've compelled me to join in with this discussion. Firstly while the USN & USAF is ragging missiles, bombs & airborne forces down on Europe, what will the rest of the planet be doing? Will the neutral European countries contribute to Europe's defence? Would Russia contribute some of it's diminished, but still formidable forces to the fight, after all, Europe today, Russia tomorrow. Then there's the commonwealth, would they sit on the fence & watch the UK go down fighting, okay so Canada & Australia don't have many heavy units, but then the commonwealth also contains India & Pakistan, true not always the best of friends, but who knows. Then there's China, would they while the US is wiping the unarmed Europeans out of existence take Taiwan & maybe Korea as well, could Japan stop them on there own or are there enough US assets to fight on both fronts. Will Israel be able to hold down the arab uprising that would surly take place, look at the trouble US forces have dealt with insurgence in Iraq, spread that over the whole of the middle east. That's now fighting on 3 fronts, with lots of other subs (russian, indian, australian, chinese) running around, trying to sink your surface vessels, oh sorry that's 4 fronts, I was forgetting about having to neutralise Canada, not much of a threat maybe, but one nonetheless. The question is, how many countries at any one time does the US have to fight against before they start to lose?
 
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gixxxerking    RE:To gixxxerking   1/13/2005 4:46:14 PM
Thats a good question. I am not able to say how a WW 5 scenario would present itself. I can only guess. A lot would depend on how the conflict started. The US is not infnately powerful. I suspect Russia, Australia, Canada would declare nutrality. Who knows what Pakistan and India would do. Israel could stop the Arab nations alone. The Chinese have a lot of business interest on both sides. They also have lots of patience. Who knows how involved they would be. Highly unpredictable.
 
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Sam    RE:Response to Sam   1/13/2005 4:46:28 PM
No they didn't, OAF consisted of the 26MEU (Kearsage ARG) and the Roosevelt CBG. Went there, Done that, Got the Tee shirt. And once again explain where you got your navy/MC plane numbers. Only 60 odd (64 t/e) harriers on the east coast total. A Wasp could only operate 20 at a time, you use 2 of those so 40 Harriers max. Why do you say you have 80. Truth be told we have less than 100 total M/C wide Same with the tomcats (56) and honets (144 Es)
 
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gixxxerking    RE:To gixxxerking   1/13/2005 4:47:52 PM
The US would seriously have to concider nuclear weapons if too many nations got involved on the wrong side.
 
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gixxxerking    Nukes   1/13/2005 4:52:38 PM
And the tangible success of that would depend on who was nuked. If t was China, India or Pakistan with limited nuclear capability we could win. But If Russia or EU SSBNs got involved it could make the cost of any US victory too great. I say could because unless the goal of the US was simply survival we could win. But the loss of millions of lives and destruction of our lifestyle under any other circumstances would be unacceptable.
 
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gixxxerking    Harriers   1/13/2005 4:59:33 PM
Well Harriers were more for a2g after the initial strike. So if I couldnt build enough during the period up to the start of the war, Borrow from the Pacific then I would adjust my AV-8B numbers to 30 to 50 without any affect on the first nights attacks since they would not be used except for anti-ship or a2g after airsuperiority is established. The 56 tomcats comes from 4 x 14 on each CSG. The 144 F/A-18E is 4 x 36. I took 4 CVNs.
 
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