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Subject: USA vs EU
gixxxerking    1/6/2005 6:13:25 PM
This is the mood in the Fighters forums so I thought I would just declare war here instead. C'mon all you armchair generals, who wins this fight?
 
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gixxxerking    ex-98C   1/12/2005 12:27:12 AM
If you read earlier you will see that the EU people wanted a period of tension prior to hostilities. During which time the Carriers would position themselves say 1000km off the EU coast. They couls dash into position in hours to conduct suprise attack. To think this isnt possible you have to be one of two this. EU nationalist blind to US capabilities. Or not a serious student of military history. An attack like this is well within our capability. And none of you have offered any valid reason why it would not work except to say, EU will stop you, with no how. As if the USN couldnt accomplish its mission because the EU has SSKs.
 
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gixxxerking    Bluewings...thanks for trying...   1/12/2005 12:32:46 AM
...and not just saying "oh EU will win", like some people. SO you agree my attack could work IF EU allowed US to get in position during period of tension? I understand now that you will not wait for this by your last post. I agree that you pre-empting me at 2000nm would complicate things. Give me some time to create a counter move and tell me what you think.
 
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Bluewings    RE:Bluewings...thanks for trying...   1/12/2005 12:42:10 AM
;-) To let you come at 1000nm from our costs would be indeed a mistake , but even that is not really such a problem as you still do not have the necessary Air asset to dominate European sky . Do you think the USN + a little to moderate support from the USAF would be enough to win against more than 2000 Aircrafts with homeland support and SAM 's ? Please Gixxx . In fact more I think about it more I believe we would not use Nuclear strikes as we can take you on in a conventional manner , no problem . Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    Reality check .   1/12/2005 1:04:57 AM
I would like to say something but I DO hope my US Friends will not take it as an offense as I do NOT mean to offend anyone . Beside being here , my usual place where I chat is the forums at link , because I design scenarios for the Game and I have a lot of Friends over there . Lots of Tankers there , some ready to go to the sand box , some coming back , some in it . A lot of military personal from all over the World . And we talk . We talk much ... Here is what I hear on an almost daily basis from Americans : " Just with Irak , we 're outstreched ... our Navy is getting smaller by the day and "They" want to go high tech and small Nukes when we need Men and firepower , nonsense ..." A Poster who 's name is "Renegade" is a Intructor/Recruiter on Bradley . He just told us he had to take a leave from the Net as He must go to few places to recruit people ASAP . I heard that your National Guards are all "busy" , and some were even talking aboput a possible Draft ~ which is not going to happen~ ... So , enthousiasts people like Gixxx should wake up to the real World and acknowledge the US Forces are NOT what they use to be . You 've lost divisions , budgets are cuts , not very long before you start to scratch Ships ~as planned~ and the USAF will not get what they are requiring . And all this time , countries like N.Korea , Pakistan , China , etc , are getting bigger . Us Europeans , we grow stronger by the year . Is a major power shift on the cards ? Cheers .
 
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ex-98C    RE:ex-98C   1/12/2005 1:20:56 AM
Well Gixxx I'm an American so that leaves out one of your two possibilities, and I've been a student of military affairs for about twenty years which would seem to deny the other. Wow I'm an anomaly! Or is it that you make broad declarative statements with little or no evidence to back you up? I leave it to the others on the forum to decide. So our carriers are 1000 miles off the coast of Europe (where I might ask as Europe has a rather long coastline)all ready to dash in a little closer and launch a devastating missile attack that will leave all of Europe prostrate beneath our heel (even though there is no one location that can bring all airfields under attack). The Admirals are chortling at their brilliance because everyone knows that US admirals would want to maintain their ships within striking range of the naval/air force power of the EU. Yeah I mean those 350 f-18s are more than enough to keep the Euros at bay if they decide to attack first. Anyway the carrier groups having received the order sneak in and launch...undetected (because I mean the Euros wouldn't THINK of keeping a fleet that close to their shores under constant observation, would they?) So they launch this mass of missiles (which of course is undetected as well) and wait for the hour or so it will take the missiles to reach their targets. Yeah Gixxx that?s a real realistic scenario. You still haven?t explained how the fleet is launching those 2000+ cruise missiles..is it all TLAMs or a mix or air launched missiles as well?
 
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gixxxerking    RE:Scenarios ...Bluewings   1/12/2005 1:22:59 AM
Girlfriend is here. Time to fight a real battle if I dont log off! I'll respond in about 10 to 12 hours.
 
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gixxxerking    RE:ex-98C...I did explain it in detail...   1/12/2005 1:27:43 AM
GO check it out. C ya tomorrow.
 
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ex-98C    RE:Reality check .   1/12/2005 1:37:16 AM
Us Europeans , we grow stronger by the year . Is a major power shift on the cards ? Ehhh lets not get ahead of ourselves Bluewings, by the way a belated welcome to the forum always good to have a reasonable point of view from the other side of the Atlantic. The US is stretched right now because it has commitments all over the world..while Europe does not. The US does not HAVe to maintain those commitments and in a significantly serious situation could focus its forces if needed. The worst case scenario is that in 2020 the US will have 8 super carriers and 10 baby carriers while the most optimistic would give the EU (if it is actually functioning as a unitied body) 4 medium flattops and at most 10 much smaller baby carriers. The US is on the brink of quantum leaps of technology in aircraft and ground forces. A perfect example of the distance between the two is the Tsunami relief effort. The US navy was able to detach the Lincoln and the B.Richard (A 40,000 ton baby Carrier) 14,000 military personnel for disaster relief without upsetting current operations..Europe can not match that capability. Not to mention that economically and demographically the US has the advantage. At least in my own humble opinion.
 
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interestred    RE:USA vs EU   1/12/2005 4:40:00 AM
hah, afganistan put up better resistance than EU wud. jokin :)
 
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El Gringo Said    Gixxerking   1/12/2005 5:00:00 AM
"4 to 6 carriers would be enough." What, exactly is your basis for this rectal extraction of a guess? there were 6 Carriers deployed in OP DS with their CVW (which are much larger than they are now), Plus have the USAF, A few squadron of RAF, a few of Armee De Air, Suadi Airforce and the like. And so you think that 4-6 CSG (thus stripping assets from other commitments) would be enough to take on the entirity of the EU combined airforces and Navies? Please. "You would be signing your own death warrant by usng your nukes." Will everybody shut the up about Nukes? For one its about as likely to happen as much as this scenario is. And should even one nuke fly, they all fly. Regardless of whether its tactical, sub strategic or Strategic, they ALL FLY. Its the only course of action which follows logic. For gods sake! "Also it is utter non-sense to think the B2 cant attack Europe. Sure its not invisible or invincible. But it would reduce your radar coverage so mush that it could sneak through gaps in coverage with ease." Hmmm... the large amount of AWAC's coupled with the relatively small area, and given that at least the UK, France and Germany are at least remotely compentant, I wouldn't think its much of a problem. The B-2's were convieved to sneak a much larger area in the 1980-1990's, with USSR AWAC's either being a form of May's or Mainstays. IOW Pants. "Not to mention 60 B-1B and 80 B-52 each sending over 12 ALCM into Europe. Lets say half of these are dedicated to EU war and average 12 ALCM each." Most, if not all would be shot down before reaching their launch points. "Say 4 Carrier Strike Groups also fire TLAM. Thats another 2000 cruise missiles. Lets say 30 SSN are also going to fire. another 360. And then Ohio SSGN fire. Another 600 cruise missiles. Thats almost 4000 cruise missiles." Ahem... you dont have that many TLAM's. "And that does not even add the hundreds of fixed wing tactical aircraft that would also be firing JDAM, JSOW and JSSM. Your command and control, communications, airfields, early warning radar, airfields, ports and WMDs would be savaged. All your air defense fighters at the same time could not stop that attack. " Firstly, what Tactical Aircraft? Sorry, but operating from CONUS, in anything other than a Benign air enviroment is impossible in anything other than a B-52, B-2 or B1. You dont have any Tactical aircraft asides from what you bring on a CSG. Theres a little thing called the Atlantic Ocean which you have to fly over. And again Numbnuts, what do you think happens, if one shot lands on anyplace in the Deterrent chain of Command? Work it out... You sir are an idiot. Its been plain to see for everybody on this thread, and other threads which you pollute with your inane ramblings.
 
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