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Subject: USA vs EU
gixxxerking    1/6/2005 6:13:25 PM
This is the mood in the Fighters forums so I thought I would just declare war here instead. C'mon all you armchair generals, who wins this fight?
 
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Danuas    RE:USA vs EU   1/6/2005 6:22:04 PM
hmmm...properly EU
 
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Bluewings    RE:USA vs EU   1/6/2005 6:45:35 PM
No one . It would be the end of Western Civilization . Cheers .
 
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gixxxerking    RE:USA vs EU   1/6/2005 6:59:50 PM
More like the end of Europe
 
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the British Lion    RE:USA vs EU   1/6/2005 7:14:21 PM
ahh... nothing like a bit of blind American arrogence to lighten the mood. So tell me Mr.King, how exactly would the USA "end" Europe? Perhaps your thinking of an invasion? hmm... subdueing 500 million europians just might give you a bit of a headache to say the least. But of course, the unstoppible juggernought that is the U.S military would roll over all them thousands of leos, leclercs and challys littering the countryside. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of targets all them highly trained Europien troops would make. But 1st you need air superiority... so lacking any bases, I assume you'd use your Carriers... thats a thousand+ fighters right there.. assuming you could send all your carriers at once. Well, that's that then. No way all of those thousands of silly Europian paper-airplanes could possibly stand up to such an overwhelming force. Maybe you'd nuke us then? Because we all know Americans can't be hurt by nukes... they only hurt the 'bad' guys, right? Those French and British nukes are mearly toys that are there too look good and make us feel like we have some power. your right... Europe wouldn't stand a chance. We'd fold like a bunch of Iraqis B.L
 
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the British Lion    RE:USA vs EU   1/6/2005 7:23:19 PM
To be 'slightly' more serious about such a daft question, the fact is the E.U cannot invade the U.S and the U.S cannot invade the E.U So basicly the war would consist of the Generals on both sides twiddleing their thumbs hopeing the other guy will try to invade 1st. Either that or they'd just get bored and nuke themselves to save time and effot B.L
 
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gixxxerking    RE:USA vs EU   1/6/2005 7:34:54 PM
Good one B.L. But you would find that the B-2 is a sneaky beast. And we could move northwest from the middle east. There is no question that this would be a nuclear confrontation. So my opening strike would be by cruise missile and B-2. You would not likely detect these before detonation. My attack would be timed to catch your SSBNs in port where possible. SSNs would locate and engage your SSBNs just prior to the first strike. ICBMs and SLBMs held in reserve. I would spare your population centers and target military initially. You would be likely to has some SSBN survive but t would not be enough to stop U.S. You would need 1000+ warheads to be credible. Sparing your capitals would not be out of kindness. It would be a direct threat to annialate them if you fire and nukes in retaliaton. Since SLBMs would strike you within 5-10 mins. It would be worth it to with hold them for this purpose. A nuclear first strike followed and exploited by conventional strikes would be very winnable for USA.
 
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gixxxerking    Invation   1/6/2005 7:37:39 PM
I agree we could not invade each other convetionally. Our post cold war force is too small. But if we reduce you with nuclear strike we could conduct invasion and force your surrender.
 
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the British Lion    RE:USA vs EU   1/6/2005 8:01:21 PM
now you see, the problem with all that, is your working on the assumption the the U.S is the agressor and that the attack would be a big suprise to all us Euro-wenies... A war on that scale would NOT be a suprise to anyone. There would be a significant build up by both sides. And when you consider the potential military power that Germany, Britain and France all hold (and to a lesser degree, Italy, Spain etc... as well) you'd be in for a world of hurt no matter how you went about it. Now, what if we changed the rules and made the E.U the agressor? Our stealth tech (as far as any of us know) is no where near as advanced as America's, but we have other tricks up our sleaves. We'd never get a fleet that could challenge the USN (assuming the USA builds up as well) but there are 2 massive differences between the dominence the US navy has now and the Royal navy had 100+ years ago... and those are subs and nukes. If i'm not misstaken, Australian Collins class subs have sunk U.S carriers in exercises... its reasonable to think our humble SSN's could achieve some success as well. And it wouldnt take many nukes to wipe the USN off the face of the planet compleatly... and vice versa of course. So invasion by both sides, nukes or no nukes, would truely be impossible. B-2's or no B-2's invasion forces would be overwhelmed by the locals... because it's doubtful many could get there in the 1st place. You could try to knock out all our nuke launching subs, but that would be one Hell of a gamble and by no means a garantee. it would take a pretty doped-up president to risk millions of american lives on such a risky plan. sorry, it doesnt really answer many of your points and I hope it makes sence... its late here and im very tired reguards, B.L (on a side note, I hate the E.U... so if you wanna change the rules to make it USA + UK Vs. the continent, i'd be right on board with ya ;))
 
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EddieV    RE:Invation   1/6/2005 8:05:58 PM
A first strike would do a lot of damage, but what about the British Trident Subs? Could the US find them before they manage to respond the attack?
 
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the British Lion    RE:USA vs EU   1/6/2005 8:06:48 PM
"i'd be right on board with ya".. oh, that is of course on the condition that the Royal Navy gets to destroy the French navy... you know, it's kind of a tradition for us... and it's been like, 60 odd years since we last got to do it!!! B.L
 
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