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Subject: Top Ten Armies of the World
Arditi    3/4/2004 3:54:10 PM
According to the CIA and other Intelligence Services (European, Asian, African) this is the tally - based on a Combination of Manpower, Technology, Firepower, Training, Resources, Available Reserves, and Nuclear Potential (Current or Likely): 1. USA 2. China 3. Germany 4. India 5. France 6. Russia 7. UK 8. Italy 9. Israel 10. Pakistan
 
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RM-Nod    RE:Heres my go at a top ten   3/26/2004 9:52:05 AM
Mind telling us why you've put them in that order? it makes it a bit more interesting than just the usual list. cheers.
 
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Arditi    RE:Heres my go at a top ten   3/26/2004 8:16:53 PM
Sweden? You jest............... Russia? Currently a Thirld World Country with the Conventional Force Punch of a Portugal. Israel? They have never really faced a Modern Army.
 
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Arditi    RE:Heres my go at a top ten   3/26/2004 8:30:23 PM
Vietnam???????????????????????????????????????? Were you there????????????????????????????????? I know - the only war lost by the US or so I've read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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fullamongo    RE:Heres my go at a top ten   3/27/2004 5:29:50 AM
I can only go on what i hear but last i heard, public opinion in US shifted against war in vietnam due to casualty rate etc. so US withdrew. i'd say that was a victory for the little guy. 15 years ago russia had the worlds biggest army. the situation hasn't deteriorated as much over as people think. eg. russian air force last year increased their availability rate from very low (60% i think to 80%). I also took into account countries military industrial complexes and assumed that countries would have a year to gear up for war. Russia would beat China cos China imports their arms from russia. su 27 isn't much good if you can't get spare parts for it. more later.
 
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sooner    RE:Top Ten Armies of the World-to Ad   3/27/2004 7:36:24 AM
Wonderful point. I strongly agree with the statement and the sarcasm.
 
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RM-Nod    RE:Heres my go at a top ten   3/27/2004 10:24:31 AM
In vietnam the US won every battle, if they had been given enough time they could have won the war. If it wasn't for the American public then the Vietnamese would never have won anything. So I wouldn't give them that much credit. Russia has seriously been depleted from 15 years ago. The are trying to keep a military 5 times the size of Britains on the same budget as Britain. This is an impossibility. They have only 6 more surface combatants than the UK but most of there navy is rusting in port and what does come out of port is in questionable condition, just look at the peter the great incident recently. Since the cold war the Russian navy has decreased by 80%, similar numbers can also be said for most other areas of the Russian military. Training is also hugely lacking in all areas. There air force is in a similar state, most pilots have far less flight hours than there western counterparts, and therer aircraft is largley unservicable due to budget constraints. There morale is pitiful and desertions are common. Save for a small core the Russian military is obsolete or unservicable. I won't say anything about there inability to move forces past Russian borders. I don't know why you put the others there though like India or ROK. If you read through this and other top ten posts you can see why few here would agree with your list.
 
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Rule Britannia    RE:Heres my go at a top ten   3/27/2004 2:45:27 PM
"Russia has seriously been depleted from 15 years ago. The are trying to keep a military 5 times the size of Britains on the same budget as Britain." -
 
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Rule Britannia    RE:Heres my go at a top ten   3/27/2004 2:45:27 PM
"Russia has seriously been depleted from 15 years ago. The are trying to keep a military 5 times the size of Britains on the same budget as Britain." -
 
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Rule Britannia    RE:Heres my go at a top ten   3/27/2004 2:48:11 PM
"Russia has seriously been depleted from 15 years ago. The are trying to keep a military 5 times the size of Britains on the same budget as Britain." -Not even that, the Russian Federation only spend $22 Billion on Defence. In contrast the United Kingdom spend nearer $45 Billion (or over).
 
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fullamongo    My top ten explained.   3/27/2004 3:19:04 PM
Ok. when i made my list i assumed that countries would have some time to gear up to a wartime economy. when deciding who would beat who, you must take into account the size and quality of their standing armed forces (not just army) and reserves and the size of its military industrial complex (how many tanks you can produce is more important than how many Big Macs you can buy). 1 USA. Whose going to argue with that? 2 Russia. russias standing armed forces havn't deteriarated as much as many claim. many of their problems could be fixed in a short period of time. eg russia improved the readiness of its airforce from circa 60% to 80-85% in about a year. russia ain't afraid of making examples of people. a few executions would sort out their disipline problems. they are fairly well equiped with t-72 and t-80 tanks (being replaced with t-90s) mig 29s su27s akula class submarines etc. not up to the standards of the western stuff but they have a great numerical advantage over most countries. russias secret strength lies in their stockpiles and huge, self sufficent military industrial comples. they have 1000 mig-23's in warehouses!!! cos of conscription they also have the people to operate them. production wise, russia is a sleeping giant. back in the day of the USSR tey used to produce 300 MIG 23's a year (god only know what the total capacity of these factories is). they could beat anyone barr th US. eg China. Russia has more su-27's than china. if you look past chinas su 27's you see that they have Mig 19's backing them up. so russian and chinese su 27s, lets say for arguments sake, cancel each other out (the reality would be different for countless reasons). then yout have russian mig 23's facing chinese mig 19's. thats the situation throughout the chinese armed forces. first rate stuff backed up by third rate, 50 year old stuff. thats all irrelevent anyway. all the first rate chinese stuff is russian! spare parts shortages would grind the chinese armed forces to a halt. (the indegenous J-10 uses russian engines, assembled in china and only a handful are actually in service, same for type 90 tank). russia wins. 3 china that said, china still has a 3,000,000 strong standing armes forces. assuming that russia supplies it, it should be able to steam-role anyone else. troop quality is dubious. after all when did the chinese last win a war? 4 ROK large, (600,000 strong) well equipped and very well trained. all their equipment comes from reliable forign sources (US mostly). has good indeginous stuff too (Hyundai tank). ROK have a HUGE reserve, 4,500,000!!! maybe they should be ahead of china? 5 India 1,200,000 strong, fairly well equipped (su-30mki etc.) and large military industrial complex. training & motivation is questionable. maybe should be as low as 8th. 6 Germany twice the germans have taken on the world and come close to beating it. big armed forces, 1st class training and equipment. top quality M.I.C. (builds the best tank in the world, Leopard IIA6). Only a fool would say that the germans don't know how to fight. 7 UK Top class army. Good M.I.C. Empire a major drawback. Overcommited. UK army chief of staff says the won't be able to do another Iraq sized campaign till 2008! 8 France Same size a UK if not bigger, as well equipped, but not as well trained and no recient combat experience. 9 Israel Well trained and equipped but is a conscript army who are trained for policing/security as well as combat. Arditi's point about them is valid but i can't think of anyone else who could beat them. 10 Sweden Sweden possibly should be 9. Every small country should have a military like Sweden's. A small but world but world beating M.I.C (Gripen, anti-tank missiles etc). Conscripts are well trained equipped and motivated. serving in the army is a matter of pride. the swedes have always been inovative. eg. all swedish aircraft can be properly maintained by conscripts and are capable of being re-armed, re-feuled and ready for combat in 10 minutes. the government straighteded loads of 1640ft stretches of road close to airbases making an anti-airfield campaign impossible! They have stealth frigates for gods sake. these guys rock! During WW2 Hitler invaded Norway to secure access to Swedish iron ore but thought better of invading sweden itself. Stalins armies invaded Finland but stopped on the Swedish border! They could have taken sweden but they would have paid dearly. Sweden: Pop. 8,000,000, tax rate 70%, military: first class. I mentioned vietnam cos on paper France, US and China should have wiped the floor with them but they didn't. The X-factor, the things we can't measure (luck etc.), may decide who wins a war. However, the race might not always go to the swiftest and the fight mightn't always be won by the strongest, but as the cynic once said, that is the way you bet. I welcome any constructive criticism and clarifications. Any country that can beat my allstar team? Try
 
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