Top Ten Armies of the World

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Arditi RE:Israel 6/14/2004 2:25:38 PM

I am confused, Mr. "french." I agree with everything you have said regarding Israel and never posted anything to the contrary. Do you have me confused with someone else? If you review some of my posts you will note that I am not Israeli. And I concur with your conclusion: The Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what they claim the Germans did to them. Also note, I am not Arab. I am Italian and my political convictions are in line with ALLEANZA NAZIONALE. As a European, you might be familiar with their Program.

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Arditi RE:Israel - french stratege 6/14/2004 2:29:53 PM

Mr. swhitebull - I remind you of the massacre in Lebanon in 1982 against Palestinian women and children carried out by Christian Militias under SUPPORT and ENCOURAGEMENT of Mr. Sharon, the current PM and Military Commander at that time. That is why Mr. Sharn cannot visit may European Countries where he is still under indictment for WAR CRIMES.

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Arditi RE:Top Ten Armies of the World 6/14/2004 3:01:46 PM

"But Israel has a numerous, trained and well-armed army, plus a nuclear deterrent. Italy has nothing of the sort". Not so, my friend. Most Europeam Armies are comparable in equipment (Tanks, Personnel Carriers, Artillery, Fighters, Helicopters, etc.). The Italian Army is currently a volunteer force (the draft was abolished two years ago) and its training is based on the "American" model. The Italian Navy, with its two Carriers, is a dominant force in the Eastern Mediterranean. The Folgore Division (Paras) is superbly equipped and has quick, long range, massive striking capability. The San-Marco Battallion is the heir to the X-MAS human torpedos and equally capable. Not to mention the Bersaglieri, Carabinieri and Alpini Divisions. The Alpini, according to the US Joint Chiefs, are "arguibly the best Mountain troops in the world". You need to shed your stereotypical attitude and broaden your horizon. Italian troops have proven their worth in Lebanon, Somalia, East Timor, Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Afghanistan, the First Iraq War (Air Force and Navy only), and the current occupation of Iraq. Currently, Italy has no Nuclear capability - by choice. Its ability to construct nuclear weapons in quantity, should they choose to do so, far exceeds that of Israel.

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aceofw RE:Israel - french stratege, Arditi 6/14/2004 3:14:39 PM

[Comments deleted by SysOps] You have absolutely no idea what are you talking about, don't you? You have no idea what it was like in those camps, and you have no idea what it is like in Gaza or in any other Palestinian city. As a descendant of a holocaust survivor, it offends me greatly to hear such ridiculous claims from you, although I can understand now how it is that over 40% of the anti-Semitist attacks in the world happen in France. But don't worry, I'm not going to accuse you of being anti-Semitists, I'm just going to accuse you of being idiots. "Their grand parents were mass murdured passively by nazis with the exception of a little desperate resistance in warzaw guetto:not an example of overall courage." "The Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what they claim the Germans did to them" These claims are so absurd I'm not even going to answer them. French stratege ? If Israel would have done to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews, there would be no Palestinians left. Arditi ? Sharon is guilty of not stopping the massacre, but in "SUPPORT and ENCOURAGEMENT"!? If you make such a claim, prove it! BTW: You can debate and argue about Israel as much as you want, but if you bring out the Holocaust like this, don't expect people to take you seriously. Sincerely, Aceofw

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TOXICITIE 2 RE:Top Ten Armies of the World 6/14/2004 3:21:49 PM

uhhh... I know that wars aren't won by what it says on paper but really, I said total war, France's economy dwarfs the Israelie (sp?), France has a much (and I mean MUCH) bigger manufacturing capacity than the nation smaller than my front porch. Yes you have many good tanks and soldiers, aircraft but I'm sure (unless Israel some how took Paris) france could dwarf any force you have, and france HAS a high quality military. Don't forget France aren't poorly funded arabs with little or no technologicly advanced vehicles... However I agree that the current forces of France lack the capability to over run Israel but in reality they would not just try and walk in with that force.

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Arditi RE:Israel - french stratege, Arditi 6/14/2004 3:26:15 PM

"French stratege ? If Israel would have done to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to the Jews, there would be no Palestinians left". Why not? Are there any Jews left? The fact that there are Jews left would equally suggest that there are Palestinians left. Anti-Semetism has nothing to do with this discussion (even though you claim we are merely idiots), the mere mention of the term is simply an attempt to mystify, confuse, and derail the issue. And what is the issue: Israel's consistent land grab in violation of every protocal ever signed. Even you cannot deny that the Israeli army in its zeal has consistently attacked and murdured women and children. Of course, if you reside in the USA, you may not be aware of that. Your media, on this issue, has proven less than fair.

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swhitebull RE:Israel - Arditi 6/14/2004 3:36:31 PM

...Mr. swhitebull - I remind you of the massacre in Lebanon in 1982 against Palestinian women and children carried out by Christian Militias under SUPPORT and ENCOURAGEMENT of Mr. Sharon, the current PM and Military Commander at that time. That is why Mr. Sharn cannot visit may European Countries where he is still under indictment for WAR CRIMES... Remind me all you wish, Signor Arditi. Payback is a bitch, which is what the Christian Phalange did to the PALI terrorists that had been massacring and ethnically cleansing the Christians during the preceding 15 years. Its just a shame that Sharon and the IDF were prevented from wiping out the terrorist scourge of the PLO once and for all by the pleas of the European community, and by the Reagan administration (one of its few failings), which led to the Beirut barracks bombings of the American Marines and the French Paratroopers. I would look to your own backdoor and history and your Italian response to the REAL massacres of Muslims in Bosnia before you are so quick to pass judgment on other country's leaders. IIRC, Italy didn?t lift as much as a finger to come to the defense of the Bosnian Muslims until SHAMED into doing so by then-President Clinton. And I would do a little more legal research into the background - Sharon was already exonerated in court here in the States for being slandered in print on those very same accusations. Do you believe Israel is illegally occupying Gaza and the West Bank? If so, please show us less-enlightened ones where this "illegal" occupation is occurring. .....Israelis are doing to the Palestinians what they claim the Germans did to them... And what, pray tell, are those "things". See any ovens or gas chambers (try Saddam and the Kurds, or the Egyptians in Yemen using poison gas - OR Mussolini in Ethiopia)? Or massive killings of Palestinians (try the Sudan or Bosnia)? or wholesale bombings of cities or mass hangings (Grozny)? Or wiping them out in any way as part of a concerted policy (again, Bosnia and the Sudan)? Where was YOUR outrage then, Ardi? My guess is nice and secure in your little world where no one is bad, and terrorists arent killing your children and its really the fault of those damn Jews for getting on a bus going to work when some animal decides to bomb it. So sorry if the Israelis do what it takes to defend themselves - a pox on your delicate sense and sensibilities - really, its bad form for you to be reminded of those daily attacks. Not sporting, when you want to portray the Palestinians as the victims of those dreaded mean bad Israelis. By the way - did you happen to raise a voice in outrage, disgust or protest or even sympathy the other week when a pregnant Israeli mother and her 4 young daughters (ages 2 - 13) were DELIBERATELY murdered by PALIS shooting them in the backs of their heads? After being run off the road by those same heroic PALIs who can ONLY wage war on women and children? Real perpetrators of violence against Palestinians, those toddlers are, aren?t they? What? I can?t hear you. Your silence is deafening. My guess it wasn?t in YOUR media, was it - or downplayed? and if so, my real guess is you felt they deserved being murdered. Gut reactions are telling, ARDI - OR A DOUBLE STANDARD ON YOUR PART. Seems like you have forgotten your own terrorists in the 1970s and 80s. Ah, those Memories, they fade so quickly. How many Palestinian deaths are really civilians, and how many are military age combattants? Now how many Israeli deaths are civilians? Don't think too hard - its already been published here in StrategyPages. You might even learn a thing or two. I would say that the PALIS are trying to do to the Israelis what the Nazis did to the Jews in world war 2 - deliberately trying to kill as many civilians as possible - not the other way around, as you suggest. IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE by the PLO own texts - again, as has been published here many time before. So do you have ANY evidence that the Israelis are doing what you claim they are doing and that this is occurring - except in your dream world? Please be specific - I am curious, and, while you are at it - you might consider watching the movie: "Garden of the Finzi-Continis", just for laughs. How many Italian Jews were sent to German gas chambers by their Italian neighbors again? And you have the TEMERITY to stand in judgment of Israeli policies? Thank goodness Berlusconi is in charge of Italy, and not people like you. Sounds like more Eurotrash bash-those-damn-Jewish-colonialists pap that your intelligentsia has come to so ardently believe in, or people like you swallow whole without any cognitive process involved, other than your opinions rather than facts. Guess the Israelis in YOUR mind are not allowed to defend themselves from PALI terrorism, are they? Or do you think that assassinating Hamas leaders who ORDER attacks on Israeli civilians - and whose stated goal is to kill all of the Jews in Israel - a bad thing? Do you think those assassinations are illegal? Under what international law would that be? I guess if a PALI bombs a bus of Jewish children in Jerusalem, and the Israelis have the temerity to bring that up and show pictures of childrens? heads lying in the street, that just offends your delicate sensibilities - and is not sporting as well, since it shows what animals the PALIS really are - and that's not the message you want to entertain, is it? Oh well, let's not let the reality get in the way to de-legitimize and demonize Israel, shall we? Oh, I forget, that's just ok, since it was only Jews that were killed, right. I suppose you are a fervent Rachel - I-never-met-a-terrorist-I-couldnt-hug-or-an-american-flag-i-couldnt-spit-on - Corrie supporter as well? swhitebull - I would be really careful here with your responses here, Signori Arditi, you are on REALLY thin moral ice here.

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aceofw RE:Israel - Arditi 6/14/2004 4:51:28 PM

"Why not? Are there any Jews left? The fact that there are Jews left would equally suggest that there are Palestinians left." Admitably, I missphrased, it should've been "French stratege ? If Israel would have done to the Palestinians what the Nazis TRIED TO DO to the Jews, there would be no Palestinians left." ? And anyone with half a brain would've understood that, only reinforce my point about you being an idiot. "the mere mention of the term is simply an attempt to mystify, confuse, and derail the issue" Quite the contrary, it is you who are mystifying the issue (but not intentionally, that's why you're not an anti-Semite), by even comparing the Holocaust to anything. The Holocaust is incomparable, to anything, period (And that's a discussion I won't start here). "Even you cannot deny that the Israeli army in its zeal has consistently attacked and murdured women and children" Actually, I can, you see, the IDF doesn't attack or murder women and children, the IDF attacks terrorist who hide behind women and children, and the IDF is constantly trying to minimize the loss of innocent lives. BTW: I reside in Israel, in a kibbutz called Yad-Mordechai , named after Mordecai Anielewicz, the leader of the Warsaw ghetto uprising. I am aware of what goes on in Gaza and in the west-bank much more than you are, Arditi, and my media provides me with much better information than your "fair" media.

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Alexis RE:Alexis - According to StrategyPage - Ilpars 6/14/2004 6:48:36 PM

Thanks ! About nationality, I'm French as you are. "Training have improved a lot in the last two years." I don't know about that, I'm not in the armed forces. I've heard that though it did improve a lot, much remained to be done since many NCOs are "young" in their responsabilities. About the number of generals in the Army, it's simply amazing that there would be 1 general for every 270 soldiers ! Reminds me of the old story about how many generals were sent to Limoges (hence : "limoger") in 1914 after the first battles because they had proven so lacking. Brilliant leaders were found in the Army then, but it took a lot of suffering to tell them from the failed ones. I guess this is true for any Army that experiences a long period of peace.

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Alexis RE:Israel - french stratege - Advocate of Reason 6/14/2004 6:52:24 PM

The call will be any time a pressing need is felt for derogatory remarks in place of reasoned arguments. Your comments about intentionnally not capitalizing France nor French (which I put in my reply, but for some reason didn't appear) were not the best you can produce. At least I hope so.

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Lea RE:Israel - Arditi 6/14/2004 6:57:09 PM

You justify the massacre based on "payback." That says it all. Having made that statement, everything you say following is pure trash. It is you, Mr. swhitebull who are on thin ice, not Arditi. And, I might add, typical of the lies, manipulations, and pscho babble that emanates from Tel Aviv on a daily basis.

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Alexis RE:Top Ten Armies of the World - Arditi 6/14/2004 7:04:38 PM

I have to admit I was not precise enough when saying "Israel has a numerous, trained and well-armed army, plus a nuclear deterrent. Italy has nothing of the sort". That imprecise wording meant that Italian forces would not be well trained, while in fact I'm sure they are, and you explained that. However, the ***present*** numbers and equipment quality of the Israeli armed forces remain greater than those of Italian. Israel is organized to be able to quickly mobilize about 500,000 soldiers, which Italy could not do. As for air force and army, the large tally of Israeli F15s and F16s has no Italian counterpart in similar numbers, while heavy tanks are also more numerous in the Israeli army. And the Israeli deterrent is very actual, while Italy has not built any operational nuclear weapon (or else it's a real scoop !). You're right about the Navy though : the Italian is much greater than the Israeli. About what POTENTIAL military forces Italy could build, well on paper they could exceed Israel's since the economic potential is so different. But it's a bit different from actual military forces ! Thanks to Italy not having neighbors hell-bent on her destruction, she will in all probability never have to build herself very large armed forces.

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Lea RE:Israel 6/14/2004 7:08:56 PM

The Holocoust is "Incomparable to any period." When will it stop? How long must we continue to pay the price for the "Holocoust." I suspect forever, I suspect Jews will always use the "Holocoust" and its surrounding myths to gain advantage over everyone else. Perhaps that was just the ultimate conclusion of 2,000 years of exploiting everyone else - beginning with the murder of Jesus Christ. Here is a good movie for you to see, "The Passion of the Christ." But you are in Israel where, I am told, the movie is banned. Too much TRUTH AND REALITY?

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french stratege aceofw : exchanging territories? 6/14/2004 7:27:36 PM

I wrote: "Israel problem is arroguance and its refusing to agree to its prime responsability in the arab-Israel conflict by expelling palestinian of their zone after doing massacre like in der yasin in the same way that nazis does previously agaisnt some population (but in a much more total way I agree)." I don't compare fully nazis to Israelian: Nazi did worst with the camp but before german was using these sort of 48 terror. Second, this was done in 1948, and I agree that today Israel don't use blind terror as in 48. But the first blood is the first outrage which had led to the today situation.I don't want to speak about "holocaust" here.I only reply to IAFbestinworld and its curious logic. But you could give your advice as an Israelian to what I also wrote: "If you want Israel in peace, make some compromise and some excuses first. Israel will have a problem in 15 years if it continue like that: imagine saudis giving their weapons to syria after monarchy replaced, or state of Iranian military industry selling low cost hight tech weapons in 15 years and having nukes and ICBM! I 'm not against Israel population but they should change their mind.However I don't like arabs and their primitive and some time barbarian mentality." and "I don't put both at the same level: the Nazi did much worse.However for Israel expelling arabs using terror and massacre,it was not the policy of a single group isolated but a policy done by a part of the Israel 1948 forces with full approval of high command in violation of UNO 1948 resolution.And it is the problem with today Israel arrogance.I'm not in favor of Israel or Arabs even I respect much more israelis than arabs. If I were sharon I would try to exchange south of Israel (for exemple 4 time Gaza surface in exchange of half cisjordanie to widen telAviv corridor until 60 km and then give an economical help with US to palestinian) " What do you think or Israelis of such a proposal?

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swhitebull Lea 6/14/2004 9:18:19 PM

....You justify the massacre based on "payback." That says it all. Having made that statement, everything you say following is pure trash. It is you, Mr. swhitebull who are on thin ice, not Arditi.... Uh yeah, right. What ever the new putz on the block says. Nice trash talking on your part though. Since you didnt bother to read anything else since you think its trash, no loss off of my back. That means just one more ignoramous flourishes in the world, since I explain why the Phalange attacked the camps. Didnt say that I personally approved of the attacks, but I sure can understand it. Oh well, we cant ALL be as informed as you are - especially as a newcomer who has yet to prove that they have anything to pass on except for gas. ..The Holocoust is "Incomparable to any period." When will it stop? How long must we continue to pay the price for the "Holocoust." I suspect forever, I suspect Jews will always use the "Holocoust" and its surrounding myths to gain advantage over everyone else. Perhaps that was just the ultimate conclusion of 2,000 years of exploiting everyone else - beginning with the murder of Jesus Christ... Spoken like a true believer. thank you very much. You have just proved the bankruptcy of your morals, ethics and intellect as a holocaust denier and antiSemite. Im sure you would have felt right at home in Germany - since what you said comes right out of Mein Kampf. Hope you are around these boards later - it will be fun to see others more eloquent than I to smash your hate-filled words down your twisted throat. What a waste to the rest of mankind that your kind is allowed to propagate your filth. swhitebull

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